Dutch Longobard? About Scandic and/or Baltic-Slavic influences.....

[ph2ter]

Thanks, can you also do the pen=0,001 version for me if you have some spare time?

Of course:

[1] "distance%=1.9411"


Radboud


Beaker_Britain,35.8
Beaker_Mittelelbe-Saale,32.4
Beaker_Hungary,10.8
Beaker_Czech,7.6
Beaker_Bavaria,7.4
Beaker_The_Netherlands,1.4
Iberia_ChL,0.8
Petrovka_MLBA,0.6
Scotland_N,0.6
Beaker_Italy_North,0.4
Maros,0.4
Baden_LCA,0.2
Balkans_BA,0.2
Balkans_ChL,0.2
Beaker_Iberia,0.2
Beaker_Poland,0.2
England_N,0.2
Globular_Amphora_Poland,0.2
Iberia_Central_CA,0.2
Sweden_MN,0.2


and for Finn with pen=0.001
[1] "distance%=2.2409"


Finn


Beaker_Czech,27.4
Beaker_Bavaria,27
Beaker_Britain,26.6
BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN,11.4
Scotland_N,1.8
Beaker_Mittelelbe-Saale,1.2
Beaker_France,0.8
Baden_LCA,0.4
Beaker_France_South,0.4
Beaker_Iberia,0.4
Beaker_The_Netherlands,0.4
Blatterhole_MN,0.4
CWC_Baltic,0.4
Beaker_Hungary,0.2
England_N,0.2
Globular_Amphora_Poland,0.2
Globular_Amphora_Ukraine,0.2
Hungary_BA,0.2
Iberia_Central_CA,0.2
Protoboleraz_LCA,0.2

[JMcB]

Of course:

[1] "distance%=1.9411"


Radboud


Beaker_Britain,35.8
Beaker_Mittelelbe-Saale,32.4
Beaker_Hungary,10.8
Beaker_Czech,7.6
Beaker_Bavaria,7.4
Beaker_The_Netherlands,1.4
Iberia_ChL,0.8
Petrovka_MLBA,0.6
Scotland_N,0.6
Beaker_Italy_North,0.4
Maros,0.4
Baden_LCA,0.2
Balkans_BA,0.2
Balkans_ChL,0.2
Beaker_Iberia,0.2
Beaker_Poland,0.2
England_N,0.2
Globular_Amphora_Poland,0.2
Iberia_Central_CA,0.2
Sweden_MN,0.2


and for Finn with pen=0.001
[1] "distance%=2.2409"


Finn


Beaker_Czech,27.4
Beaker_Bavaria,27
Beaker_Britain,26.6
BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN,11.4
Scotland_N,1.8
Beaker_Mittelelbe-Saale,1.2
Beaker_France,0.8
Baden_LCA,0.4
Beaker_France_South,0.4
Beaker_Iberia,0.4
Beaker_The_Netherlands,0.4
Blatterhole_MN,0.4
CWC_Baltic,0.4
Beaker_Hungary,0.2
England_N,0.2
Globular_Amphora_Poland,0.2
Globular_Amphora_Ukraine,0.2
Hungary_BA,0.2
Iberia_Central_CA,0.2
Protoboleraz_LCA,0.2

As a comparison, some similarity with Finn in our top populations.

pen=0.001
[1] "distance%=1.3402"


JMcB


Beaker_Czech,36.6
Beaker_Britain,27.8
Beaker_Bavaria,12
BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN,6.2
Beaker_Mittelelbe-Saale,3.2
Scotland_CA_EBA,2.4
Beaker_Iberia,1.6
Scotland_N,1.6
Beaker_The_Netherlands,1
Iberia_Central_CA,0.8
Beaker_France_South,0.6
Globular_Amphora_Poland,0.6
Globular_Amphora_Ukraine,0.6
Iberia_ChL,0.6
Petrovka_MLBA,0.6
Sweden_MN,0.6
Beaker_France,0.4
CWC_Czech_o,0.4
Nordic_LN,0.4
Portugal_MN,0.4
Baden_LCA,0.2
Beaker_Poland,0.2
Blatterhole_HG,0.2
CWC_Baltic,0.2
Hungary_BA,0.2
Iberia_MN,0.2
Ukraine_Eneolithic,0.2
Wales_N,0.2

I had to look up BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN but then again, I have to look up a lot of things on this forum. ;-)

[Finn]

Volat, this short movie shows how the Slavs spread: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqGBRGTIpGk

This is the Dutch version
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=js8iFSTOjKc#

[Finn]

Of course:

[1] "distance%=1.9411"


Radboud


Beaker_Britain,35.8
Beaker_Mittelelbe-Saale,32.4
Beaker_Hungary,10.8
Beaker_Czech,7.6
Beaker_Bavaria,7.4
Beaker_The_Netherlands,1.4
Iberia_ChL,0.8
Petrovka_MLBA,0.6
Scotland_N,0.6
Beaker_Italy_North,0.4
Maros,0.4
Baden_LCA,0.2
Balkans_BA,0.2
Balkans_ChL,0.2
Beaker_Iberia,0.2
Beaker_Poland,0.2
England_N,0.2
Globular_Amphora_Poland,0.2
Iberia_Central_CA,0.2
Sweden_MN,0.2


and for Finn with pen=0.001
[1] "distance%=2.2409"


Finn


Beaker_Czech,27.4
Beaker_Bavaria,27
Beaker_Britain,26.6
BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN,11.4
Scotland_N,1.8
Beaker_Mittelelbe-Saale,1.2
Beaker_France,0.8
Baden_LCA,0.4
Beaker_France_South,0.4
Beaker_Iberia,0.4
Beaker_The_Netherlands,0.4
Blatterhole_MN,0.4
CWC_Baltic,0.4
Beaker_Hungary,0.2
England_N,0.2
Globular_Amphora_Poland,0.2
Globular_Amphora_Ukraine,0.2
Hungary_BA,0.2
Iberia_Central_CA,0.2
Protoboleraz_LCA,0.2

Thanks! I personally have an extreme focus on the context....In your previous posting it became perfectly clear that I have a shot of NE European, but I don't know what the relevance of BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN is in this respect.

[ph2ter]

Thanks! I personally I have an extreme focus on the context....In your previous posting it became perfectly clear that I have a shot of NE European, but I don't know what the relevance of BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN is in this respect.

At first I thought that with pen=0.001 nMonte chose BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN to compensate your high WHG. In runs withhout pen nMonte chose CWC, Baltic_BA, Avar Szolad or Lithuanian to compensate the same high WHG.
But BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN has high amount of Steppe and not so high WHG as I thought, so I don't know why he is classified as Late Neolithic:
[1] "distance%=3.5276"


BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN:I0059


STEPPE,54
EEF,31.8
WHG,14.2

[ph2ter]

This is the Dutch version
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=js8iFSTOjKc#

[Coldmountains]

Based on the W-Euroasian coordinates member Huijbregts made some fine analyses() about my auDNA, this was the result:

Germany_Medieval,86
Avar_Hungary_Szolad,13
Sweden_MN,1


I'm of North Dutch descent. German Mediaval is in that sense no surprise. But the Avar Szolad?

Member Tomenable made an analysis and the Avar-Szolad are to be qualified as a kind of Balto-Slavic.

Based on G25 nMonte webrunner, this is absent among Dutch and generally in West-Europe, not even among the early Anglo-Saxons:


We only see a trace among the Norwegians only along the Swedish we get a pretty amount of Avar-Szolad.

The Swedish amount is no surprise see a very big amount of Avar-Szolad among Rise174 that's a Swedish migration time sample, almost 1/4!


When I take my family and member Radboud, it's there in my family's samples and not in Radboud's sample:



Is in my case the Balto-Slavic influence direct or recent or is this indirect, due to a Swedish influence?

I have no known recent Balto-Slavic ancestors.....So I guess the biggest chance is that in the turmoil of the big population migration there was a Swedish (or East Danish) kind of influence.

So in the in the end a kind of Longobard?

Actually the current King of the Netherlands belongs to R1a-S18681, which is a slavic line. He got it from a german ancestor and i guess much if not most of the slavic-like admixture in the Netherlands was mediated by Germans, who can have in some cases very much slavic admixture.

[Finn]

Actually the current King of the Netherlands belongs to R1a-S18681, which is a slavic line. He got it from a german ancestor and i guess much if not most of the slavic-like admixture in the Netherlands was mediated by Germans, who can have in some cases very much slavic admixture.

The European Queens and kings and high nobility are not representive for the common population, in the case of the current Dutch king his father is Claus von Amsberg, the Von Amsbergs are partly von Mecklenburg Vorpommern, close to the R1A center.....

The general common Dutch have no Baltic touch!

[Jessie]

Of course:

[1] "distance%=1.9411"


Radboud


Beaker_Britain,35.8
Beaker_Mittelelbe-Saale,32.4
Beaker_Hungary,10.8
Beaker_Czech,7.6
Beaker_Bavaria,7.4
Beaker_The_Netherlands,1.4
Iberia_ChL,0.8
Petrovka_MLBA,0.6
Scotland_N,0.6
Beaker_Italy_North,0.4
Maros,0.4
Baden_LCA,0.2
Balkans_BA,0.2
Balkans_ChL,0.2
Beaker_Iberia,0.2
Beaker_Poland,0.2
England_N,0.2
Globular_Amphora_Poland,0.2
Iberia_Central_CA,0.2
Sweden_MN,0.2


and for Finn with pen=0.001
[1] "distance%=2.2409"


Finn


Beaker_Czech,27.4
Beaker_Bavaria,27
Beaker_Britain,26.6
BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN,11.4
Scotland_N,1.8
Beaker_Mittelelbe-Saale,1.2
Beaker_France,0.8
Baden_LCA,0.4
Beaker_France_South,0.4
Beaker_Iberia,0.4
Beaker_The_Netherlands,0.4
Blatterhole_MN,0.4
CWC_Baltic,0.4
Beaker_Hungary,0.2
England_N,0.2
Globular_Amphora_Poland,0.2
Globular_Amphora_Ukraine,0.2
Hungary_BA,0.2
Iberia_Central_CA,0.2
Protoboleraz_LCA,0.2

Hi Ph2ter - Could you do one of these models for me if possible?

,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
Jessie_scaled,0.138864,0.136081,0.064488,0.052003, 0.036314,0.017291,0.001645,0.006231,0.004909,-0.00328,-0.009094,0.004646,-0.011298,-0.009771,0.029994,0.005701,-0.007041,-0.004434,0.000377,0.007879,0.007112,0.007296,-0.005793,0.010845,-0.000479

,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
Jessie_unscaled,0.0122,0.0134,0.0171,0.0161,0.0118 ,0.0062,0.0007,0.0027,0.0024,-0.0018,-0.0056,0.0031,-0.0076,-0.0071,0.0221,0.0043,-0.0054,-0.0035,0.0003,0.0063,0.0057,0.0059,-0.0047,0.009,-0.0004

I'm not Dutch so if not applicable I understand.

[ph2ter]

Hi Ph2ter - Could you do one of these models for me if possible?

,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
Jessie_scaled,0.138864,0.136081,0.064488,0.052003, 0.036314,0.017291,0.001645,0.006231,0.004909,-0.00328,-0.009094,0.004646,-0.011298,-0.009771,0.029994,0.005701,-0.007041,-0.004434,0.000377,0.007879,0.007112,0.007296,-0.005793,0.010845,-0.000479

,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
Jessie_unscaled,0.0122,0.0134,0.0171,0.0161,0.0118 ,0.0062,0.0007,0.0027,0.0024,-0.0018,-0.0056,0.0031,-0.0076,-0.0071,0.0221,0.0043,-0.0054,-0.0035,0.0003,0.0063,0.0057,0.0059,-0.0047,0.009,-0.0004

I'm not Dutch so if not applicable I understand.

I have a thread for that in Ancient section, G25 plots.

[1] "distance%=1.9318"


Jessie


Beaker_Czech,34.8
Beaker_Poland,17.6
Beaker_Britain,17.2
Beaker_Mittelelbe-Saale,10.4
Beaker_The_Netherlands,7.4
Beaker_Bavaria,4.6
Beaker_France_South,2.4
Scotland_N,1.2
Iberia_ChL,1
Beaker_Iberia,0.8
CWC_Baltic,0.6
England_N,0.6
Globular_Amphora_Ukraine,0.6
Baden_LCA,0.2
Beaker_Hungary,0.2
Globular_Amphora_Poland,0.2
Iberia_Central_CA,0.2