Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 59

Thread: Dutch Longobard? About Scandic and/or Baltic-Slavic influences.....

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    Registered Users
    Posts
    2,440
    Sex
    Location
    Groningen
    Ethnicity
    Northwest European
    Nationality
    NL
    Y-DNA
    E-V22

    Netherlands

    Dutch Longobard? About Scandic and/or Baltic-Slavic influences.....

    Based on the W-Euroasian coordinates member Huijbregts made some fine analyses() about my auDNA, this was the result:

    Germany_Medieval,86
    Avar_Hungary_Szolad,13
    Sweden_MN,1


    I'm of North Dutch descent. German Mediaval is in that sense no surprise. But the Avar Szolad?

    Member Tomenable made an analysis and the Avar-Szolad are to be qualified as a kind of Balto-Slavic.

    Based on G25 nMonte webrunner, this is absent among Dutch and generally in West-Europe, not even among the early Anglo-Saxons:


    We only see a trace among the Norwegians only along the Swedish we get a pretty amount of Avar-Szolad.

    The Swedish amount is no surprise see a very big amount of Avar-Szolad among Rise174 that's a Swedish migration time sample, almost 1/4!


    When I take my family and member Radboud, it's there in my family's samples and not in Radboud's sample:



    Is in my case the Balto-Slavic influence direct or recent or is this indirect, due to a Swedish influence?

    I have no known recent Balto-Slavic ancestors.....So I guess the biggest chance is that in the turmoil of the big population migration there was a Swedish (or East Danish) kind of influence.

    So in the in the end a kind of Longobard?
    Last edited by Finn; 02-09-2019 at 11:40 AM.

  2. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Finn For This Useful Post:

     Alain (02-12-2019),  Coldmountains (02-11-2019),  JMcB (02-09-2019),  Tomenable (02-13-2019)

  3. #2
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,561
    Sex
    Location
    Zagreb
    Ethnicity
    Croat (NW)
    Nationality
    Croatian
    Y-DNA
    I2a1a2b (Y5596>A815)

    Croatia Austrian Empire Slovenia
    I already told you that you seem to have some Swedish ancestors when you got a big chunk of Corded Ware Baltic in some ancient run. It may be something from middle Ages...
    Longobards got Slavic in their way to Italy through Hungary. It has nothing to do with Dutch, I think.
     
    Paper Trail MyHeritage K36 G25 Mod. FTDNA
    NW Croatian 87.5%
    Slovenian 6.25%
    Unknown 6.25%
    E. Europe 35.7%
    Balkan 34.4%
    Scandinavia 21.2%
    Baltic 8.7%
    Grenzmark 0.94
    Czechs 0.93,
    Hungary 0.91
    Volhyn 0.91,
    C. Rusyns 0.91
    Slovenia 0.91
    Czech 1.79
    Hungarian 2.02
    Slovenian 2.07
    Croatian 2.39
    Ukrainian 3.01
    East Europe 99%
    Trace 1%

  4. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to ph2ter For This Useful Post:

     Alain (02-12-2019),  Aroon1916 (02-11-2019),  Finn (02-09-2019),  JMcB (02-09-2019)

  5. #3
    Banned
    Posts
    1,665
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by ph2ter View Post
    I already told you that you seem to have some Swedish ancestors when you got a big chunk of Corded Ware Baltic in some ancient run. It may be something from middle Ages...
    Longobards got Slavic in their way to Italy through Hungary. It has nothing to do with Dutch, I think.
    I have plenty of Estonian (Baltic) Corded Ware. My known ancestry are as eastern European as it may be.


    ---

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 European_HG 48.01
    2 Anatolian_NF 26.19
    3 Caucasus_HG 22.16
    4 Siberian 1.41
    5 Beringian 0.94
    6 South_African_HG 0.65
    7 Near_East 0.49
    8 Oceanian 0.16

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 Corded_Ware_Estonia_RISE00 4.88
    2 Bell_Beaker_Germany_I1549 5
    3 BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN_I0059 5.35
    4 Potapovka_I0419 6.06
    5 Unetice_EBA_I0117 6.94
    6 Halberstadt_LBA_I0099 7.41
    7 Nordic_LN_SG_RISE97 7.69
    8 Srubnaya_I0232 8.13
    9 Corded_Ware_Germany_I0103 8.69
    10 Bell_Beaker_Czech_RISE569 9.04
    11 Sintashta_MBA_RISE395 9.27
    12 Srubnaya_I0430 9.82
    13 Alberstedt_LN_I0118 9.86
    14 Sintashta_MBA_RISE_386 10.83
    15 Corded_Ware_Germany_I0104 11.22
    16 BattleAxe_Sweden_SG_RISE94 11.47
    17 Andronovo_SG_RISE505 12.02
    18 Vatya_SG_RISE479 17.3
    19 Hungary_BA_I1502 18.46
    20 Scythian_IA_I0247 22.82

  6. #4
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,561
    Sex
    Location
    Zagreb
    Ethnicity
    Croat (NW)
    Nationality
    Croatian
    Y-DNA
    I2a1a2b (Y5596>A815)

    Croatia Austrian Empire Slovenia
    Quote Originally Posted by Volat View Post
    I have plenty of Estonian (Baltic) Corded Ware. My known ancestry are as eastern European as it may be.


    ---
    All Slavs have.
     
    Paper Trail MyHeritage K36 G25 Mod. FTDNA
    NW Croatian 87.5%
    Slovenian 6.25%
    Unknown 6.25%
    E. Europe 35.7%
    Balkan 34.4%
    Scandinavia 21.2%
    Baltic 8.7%
    Grenzmark 0.94
    Czechs 0.93,
    Hungary 0.91
    Volhyn 0.91,
    C. Rusyns 0.91
    Slovenia 0.91
    Czech 1.79
    Hungarian 2.02
    Slovenian 2.07
    Croatian 2.39
    Ukrainian 3.01
    East Europe 99%
    Trace 1%

  7. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to ph2ter For This Useful Post:

     Finn (02-09-2019),  Volat (02-09-2019)

  8. #5
    Banned
    Posts
    1,665
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by ph2ter View Post
    All Slavs have.
    Those are eastern Slavs and Poles? These Slavs account for around 80% of Slavdom. In that case all Slavs.

  9. #6
    Banned
    Posts
    1,665
    Sex

    Numbers don't always matter. To English Slavic cultural impression may give Russians and Poles. To me - Slovenians and Croats. Not that I don't like cultures of Poles, Russians, Ukrainians.

  10. #7
    Registered Users
    Posts
    2,440
    Sex
    Location
    Groningen
    Ethnicity
    Northwest European
    Nationality
    NL
    Y-DNA
    E-V22

    Netherlands
    Quote Originally Posted by ph2ter View Post
    I already told you that you seem to have some Swedish ancestors when you got a big chunk of Corded Ware Baltic in some ancient run. It may be something from middle Ages...
    Longobards got Slavic in their way to Italy through Hungary. It has nothing to do with Dutch, I think.
    I think that the connection is not in Corded Ware, because see the latest posting of Davidski, the Dutch version of Corded is Single Grave and is prior to the Dutch Beakers. When this was the connection Dutch average must have had Avar Szolad too.

    This is the Balto Slavic component that is present in the Swedes and may be the Baltic side of Denmark. I guess this has a connection with the Suebi, the Longobards were part of them, in any case tribes that were east of the Saxons....with a higher Balto- Slavic component. Like rise174.

    They came most probably during the migration to the North Dutch like lots of other Germanic tribes in that period. It’s something that occurred only in the NE part of the Netherlands.
    Last edited by Finn; 02-09-2019 at 03:39 PM.

  11. #8
    Registered Users
    Posts
    710
    Sex
    Location
    Netherlands
    Ethnicity
    South-Dutch
    Nationality
    Dutch
    Y-DNA
    I2a2a1b2-CTS1977
    mtDNA
    H13a1a1

    Netherlands Belgium
    Quote Originally Posted by ph2ter View Post
    I already told you that you seem to have some Swedish ancestors when you got a big chunk of Corded Ware Baltic in some ancient run. It may be something from middle Ages...
    Longobards got Slavic in their way to Italy through Hungary. It has nothing to do with Dutch, I think.
    You appear very confident in interpreting mixtures of closely related and overlapping populations with nMonte.

    I have done some analyses on Finn's sample, based on the W-Eurasian PCA. This dataset is simpler than the Global 25 PCA, so I find it natural to look at the W_Eurasian data before analyzing the Global 25.
    I am cautious in interpreting the results of my model:
    I see the Germany_Medieval as a proxy for a larger more or less Germanic group which also includes the Longobards; the less admixed Longobard samples can hardly or not be discriminated from Germany_Medieval.
    Next to this "Germanic" group, I find indications of small Eastern admixtures (Migration Period?). I have collected these in a group which I labeled "Avar_Hungary_Szolad'". Finn has been less cautious in his interpretation.
    I see no reason to suspect Slavic admixture in Longobards.
    The Swedish in the model is mainly because Finn is interested in his Northern ancestry. It is hard to get sufficient Northern samples if only because many samples are from RISE, which are not UDG treated (dixit Generalissimo).

  12. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Huijbregts For This Useful Post:

     Finn (02-09-2019),  JMcB (02-09-2019),  ph2ter (02-09-2019)

  13. #9
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,561
    Sex
    Location
    Zagreb
    Ethnicity
    Croat (NW)
    Nationality
    Croatian
    Y-DNA
    I2a1a2b (Y5596>A815)

    Croatia Austrian Empire Slovenia
    Quote Originally Posted by Huijbregts View Post
    You appear very confident in interpreting mixtures of closely related and overlapping populations with nMonte.

    I have done some analyses on Finn's sample, based on the W-Eurasian PCA. This dataset is simpler than the Global 25 PCA, so I find it natural to look at the W_Eurasian data before analyzing the Global 25.
    I am cautious in interpreting the results of my model:
    I see the Germany_Medieval as a proxy for a larger more or less Germanic group which also includes the Longobards; the less admixed Longobard samples can hardly or not be discriminated from Germany_Medieval.
    Next to this "Germanic" group, I find indications of small Eastern admixtures (Migration Period?). I have collected these in a group which I labeled "Avar_Hungary_Szolad'". Finn has been less cautious in his interpretation.
    I see no reason to suspect Slavic admixture in Longobards.
    The Swedish in the model is mainly because Finn is interested in his Northern ancestry. It is hard to get sufficient Northern samples if only because many samples are from RISE, which are not UDG treated (dixit Generalissimo).
    My point was that Finn in his ancestry has Baltic component which other Dutch don't have and that may point to Swedish connection. That's all, nothing very confident...
     
    Paper Trail MyHeritage K36 G25 Mod. FTDNA
    NW Croatian 87.5%
    Slovenian 6.25%
    Unknown 6.25%
    E. Europe 35.7%
    Balkan 34.4%
    Scandinavia 21.2%
    Baltic 8.7%
    Grenzmark 0.94
    Czechs 0.93,
    Hungary 0.91
    Volhyn 0.91,
    C. Rusyns 0.91
    Slovenia 0.91
    Czech 1.79
    Hungarian 2.02
    Slovenian 2.07
    Croatian 2.39
    Ukrainian 3.01
    East Europe 99%
    Trace 1%

  14. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to ph2ter For This Useful Post:

     Finn (02-09-2019),  JMcB (02-09-2019)

  15. #10
    Registered Users
    Posts
    2,440
    Sex
    Location
    Groningen
    Ethnicity
    Northwest European
    Nationality
    NL
    Y-DNA
    E-V22

    Netherlands
    Quote Originally Posted by ph2ter View Post
    My point was that Finn in his ancestry has Baltic component which other Dutch don't have and that may point to Swedish connection. That's all, nothing very confident...
    Yes at least to a connection with NE Europe. For example in the Finn Mom K36 report of Lukasz Pommern pops up.

    The last few hundred years there are no know connections. The Baltic connection is indeed not general in the Netherlands.

    But I guess in the case with auDNA that's not there in let's say five or even ten generations before, this must be a kind of component in the general North Dutch gene pool. May father has also the Szolad/ Balto-Slavic connection so I guess it's something of the North Dutch gene pool as a whole. Because otherwise such a chunk would not be generated.

    This gene pool is mostly shaken up during the big migration, after that it were mostly NW Germans. But those NW Germans affected my fathers ancestry more than my mothers. I suspect that she is more indigenous.

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Interesting post about Germanic-Baltic-Slavic and Satem
    By spruithean in forum Linguistics
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 02-09-2019, 01:33 PM
  2. Frisian or North Dutch but no known Dutch ancestors?
    By OnionLord in forum AncestryDNA
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 10-04-2017, 04:25 PM
  3. Baltic, Slavic, Germanic
    By paoloferrari in forum Linguistics
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 05-05-2017, 10:23 PM
  4. Lecture- Genomic Data and Longobard History . Birmingham Uni.
    By JohnHowellsTyrfro in forum History (Medieval)
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 04-10-2017, 12:47 PM
  5. Poll: Pan-Slavic or individual Slavic language sections?
    By Administrator in forum Forum Support
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 09-25-2015, 04:07 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •