Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 59

Thread: Dutch Longobard? About Scandic and/or Baltic-Slavic influences.....

  1. #21
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,669
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    It's not questioning as such it's more a question what this implicates....

    On average it's not there in the Dutch population.

    In the end it's a question what's the connection. Was it a Germanic tribe that brought it in during migration time? Or is there a kind of HG relationship between the old Ertebølle like HG around the North Sea and the Baltic sea?

    About the last option see the analysis of Ph2ter.....
    Do you think a certain folk in western Russia is less similar (genetically) than a Spaniard or Italian to you? I am not Russian by the way. Culturally Russians are less similar, perhaps. But genetically, even linguistically as Germanic is closest to Balto-Slavic in the IE tree of languages. In all tests available.
    PS
    Norse (Varangians) established Rus. Most common names in Russia, Ukraine, Belarus to these days are Olga(Helga), Oleg (Helg), Igor (Ingvar).
    Here, in my home town, we remember the names Rogvolod and Rogneda (Slavicasied Norse names ).
    Rogneda was a princess from what is today Norway : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogneda_of_Polotsk
    I can't recall original Norse version of Rogneda. It's ancient but a frequent female name in Iceland to these days.

  2. #22
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,669
    Sex

    Ah! Our Rogneda from my very town is Icelandic Ragnhild.

  3. #23
    Registered Users
    Posts
    2,419
    Sex
    Location
    Groningen
    Ethnicity
    Northwest European
    Nationality
    NL
    Y-DNA
    E-V22

    Netherlands
    Quote Originally Posted by Volat View Post
    Do you think a certain folk in western Russia is less similar (genetically) than a Spaniard or Italian to you? I am not Russian by the way. Culturally Russians are less similar, perhaps. But genetically, even linguistically as Germanic is closest to Balto-Slavic in the IE tree of languages. In all tests available.
    PS
    Norse (Varangians) established Rus. Most common names in Russia, Ukraine, Belarus to these days are Olga(Helga), Oleg (Helg), Igor (Ingvar).
    Here, in my home town, we remember the names Rogvolod and Rogneda (Slavicasied Norse names ).
    Rogneda was a princess from what is today Norway : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogneda_of_Polotsk
    I can't recall original Norse version of Rogneda. It's ancient but a frequent female name in Iceland to these days.
    Yes I know the story behind the Rus! Got some lectures East European history....Now I want to know the story behind the North Dutch....nothing more nothing less (still hard enough

  4. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Finn For This Useful Post:

     JMcB (02-10-2019),  Volat (02-10-2019)

  5. #24
    Registered Users
    Posts
    705
    Sex
    Location
    Netherlands
    Ethnicity
    South-Dutch
    Nationality
    Dutch
    Y-DNA
    I2a2a1b2-CTS1977
    mtDNA
    H13a1a1

    Netherlands Belgium
    Quote Originally Posted by ph2ter View Post
    I am not expert in this like you.
    He persistently gets about 5% of Avar Hungary Szolad, when average Dutch don't any and when Medieval Anglo-Saxon, German and Longobard samples are included. Also he gets Baltic_BA in much higher proportions than Dutch average: https://www.dropbox.com/s/5x3hfqafprxmazy/finn.png?dl=0
    I agree that source for this is some WHG rich population which does not match composition of Baltic populations that have beside WHG also EHG.
    I am reassured that your assertion was based on more than just a single nMonte model.

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to Huijbregts For This Useful Post:

     JMcB (02-10-2019)

  7. #25
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,669
    Sex

    Ah! Our Rogneda from my town (a thousand years ago) is Icelandic Ragnhild. Icelanders are conservative.

  8. #26
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,546
    Sex
    Location
    Zagreb
    Ethnicity
    Croat (NW)
    Nationality
    Croatian
    Y-DNA
    I2a1a2b (Y5596>A815)

    Croatia Austrian Empire Slovenia
    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    Thanks for the analysis Ph2ter!

    The HG connection is less likely know....Because the Baltic component is more (mother) or less (father) there in both sides of my family, from slightly different area's, I guess it's not a family thing but something of the gene pool of the outmost North Dutch.

    What could be besides a Germanic tribe influence be another option....????

    What is also obvious is that my distances, my fits, in the G25 models you present, are pretty large. Like if a component is missing...
    One more model which again show your Baltic trail:

    [1] "distance%=2.0438"


    Finn


    Beaker_Bavaria,35
    Beaker_Britain,25.6
    Globular_Amphora_Ukraine,14.8
    Beaker_The_Netherlands,7.2
    Beaker_France,6
    CWC_Baltic,5.6
    Beaker_Czech,5
    Afanasievo,0.8

    [1] "distance%=1.4592"


    Huijbregts


    Beaker_Britain,31.4
    Beaker_Czech,24.4
    CWC_Germany,21.6
    Protoboleraz_LCA,7.8
    Beaker_Hungary,5
    Beaker_Italy_North,4.4
    Beaker_Iberia,2
    Scotland_N,1.8
    Anatolia_MLBA_low_res,1.6


    [1] "distance%=1.1293"


    Dutch


    Beaker_The_Netherlands,27.4
    Beaker_Britain,24
    Beaker_Czech,20.4
    Beaker_France_South,9.4
    Beaker_Bavaria,9.2
    Protoboleraz_LCA,4
    Baden_LCA,3
    Iberia_Central_CA,2.2
    Globular_Amphora_Ukraine,0.4

    Yes, you always get large fit distances, like something is missing from the model. Probably something not far too east, maybe from ancient North Poland, a population for which we don't have samples.
     
    Paper Trail MyHeritage K36 G25 Mod. FTDNA
    NW Croatian 87.5%
    Slovenian 6.25%
    Unknown 6.25%
    E. Europe 35.7%
    Balkan 34.4%
    Scandinavia 21.2%
    Baltic 8.7%
    Grenzmark 0.94
    Czechs 0.93,
    Hungary 0.91
    Volhyn 0.91,
    C. Rusyns 0.91
    Slovenia 0.91
    Czech 1.79
    Hungarian 2.02
    Slovenian 2.07
    Croatian 2.39
    Ukrainian 3.01
    East Europe 99%
    Trace 1%

  9. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to ph2ter For This Useful Post:

     Alain (02-12-2019),  Finn (02-10-2019),  JMcB (02-10-2019),  Radboud (02-10-2019)

  10. #27
    Registered Users
    Posts
    499
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Dutch
    Y-DNA
    R1b-Z326>A5869
    mtDNA
    HV

    Quote Originally Posted by ph2ter View Post
    One more model which again show your Baltic trail:

    [1] "distance%=2.0438"


    Finn


    Beaker_Bavaria,35
    Beaker_Britain,25.6
    Globular_Amphora_Ukraine,14.8
    Beaker_The_Netherlands,7.2
    Beaker_France,6
    CWC_Baltic,5.6
    Beaker_Czech,5
    Afanasievo,0.8

    [1] "distance%=1.4592"


    Huijbregts


    Beaker_Britain,31.4
    Beaker_Czech,24.4
    CWC_Germany,21.6
    Protoboleraz_LCA,7.8
    Beaker_Hungary,5
    Beaker_Italy_North,4.4
    Beaker_Iberia,2
    Scotland_N,1.8
    Anatolia_MLBA_low_res,1.6


    [1] "distance%=1.1293"


    Dutch


    Beaker_The_Netherlands,27.4
    Beaker_Britain,24
    Beaker_Czech,20.4
    Beaker_France_South,9.4
    Beaker_Bavaria,9.2
    Protoboleraz_LCA,4
    Baden_LCA,3
    Iberia_Central_CA,2.2
    Globular_Amphora_Ukraine,0.4

    Yes, you always get large fit distances, like something is missing from the model. Probably something not far too east, maybe from ancient North Poland, a population for which we don't have samples.
    Can you run this model for me?

  11. #28
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,546
    Sex
    Location
    Zagreb
    Ethnicity
    Croat (NW)
    Nationality
    Croatian
    Y-DNA
    I2a1a2b (Y5596>A815)

    Croatia Austrian Empire Slovenia
    Quote Originally Posted by Radboud View Post
    Can you run this model for me?
    Here it is:

    [1] "distance%=1.6646"


    Radboud


    Beaker_Britain,36.8
    Beaker_The_Netherlands,15.2
    Beaker_Mittelelbe-Saale,10.6
    Baden_LCA,10.4
    Petrovka_MLBA,9
    Beaker_Bavaria,7.8
    Beaker_Poland,4.2
    Beaker_Czech,2.6
    Iberia_Central_CA,1.8
    Afanasievo,1.6
     
    Paper Trail MyHeritage K36 G25 Mod. FTDNA
    NW Croatian 87.5%
    Slovenian 6.25%
    Unknown 6.25%
    E. Europe 35.7%
    Balkan 34.4%
    Scandinavia 21.2%
    Baltic 8.7%
    Grenzmark 0.94
    Czechs 0.93,
    Hungary 0.91
    Volhyn 0.91,
    C. Rusyns 0.91
    Slovenia 0.91
    Czech 1.79
    Hungarian 2.02
    Slovenian 2.07
    Croatian 2.39
    Ukrainian 3.01
    East Europe 99%
    Trace 1%

  12. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to ph2ter For This Useful Post:

     JMcB (02-10-2019),  Radboud (02-10-2019)

  13. #29
    Registered Users
    Posts
    2,419
    Sex
    Location
    Groningen
    Ethnicity
    Northwest European
    Nationality
    NL
    Y-DNA
    E-V22

    Netherlands
    Quote Originally Posted by ph2ter View Post
    One more model which again show your Baltic trail:

    [1] "distance%=2.0438"


    Finn


    Beaker_Bavaria,35
    Beaker_Britain,25.6
    Globular_Amphora_Ukraine,14.8
    Beaker_The_Netherlands,7.2
    Beaker_France,6
    CWC_Baltic,5.6
    Beaker_Czech,5
    Afanasievo,0.8

    [1] "distance%=1.4592"


    Huijbregts


    Beaker_Britain,31.4
    Beaker_Czech,24.4
    CWC_Germany,21.6
    Protoboleraz_LCA,7.8
    Beaker_Hungary,5
    Beaker_Italy_North,4.4
    Beaker_Iberia,2
    Scotland_N,1.8
    Anatolia_MLBA_low_res,1.6


    [1] "distance%=1.1293"


    Dutch


    Beaker_The_Netherlands,27.4
    Beaker_Britain,24
    Beaker_Czech,20.4
    Beaker_France_South,9.4
    Beaker_Bavaria,9.2
    Protoboleraz_LCA,4
    Baden_LCA,3
    Iberia_Central_CA,2.2
    Globular_Amphora_Ukraine,0.4

    Yes, you always get large fit distances, like something is missing from the model. Probably something not far too east, maybe from ancient North Poland, a population for which we don't have samples.
    Thanks, fascinating!

    ....mmmm now the connection.....

    Direct from the Baltic/East Europe? Or transmitted through more 'Northeast' Germanic tribes?

    How can we trace this?

  14. #30
    Registered Users
    Posts
    705
    Sex
    Location
    Netherlands
    Ethnicity
    South-Dutch
    Nationality
    Dutch
    Y-DNA
    I2a2a1b2-CTS1977
    mtDNA
    H13a1a1

    Netherlands Belgium
    Quote Originally Posted by ph2ter View Post
    [1] "distance%=1.4592"

    Huijbregts

    Beaker_Britain,31.4
    Beaker_Czech,24.4
    CWC_Germany,21.6
    Protoboleraz_LCA,7.8
    Beaker_Hungary,5
    Beaker_Italy_North,4.4
    Beaker_Iberia,2
    Scotland_N,1.8
    Anatolia_MLBA_low_res,1.6
    As to the model of my sample, the broad line of 77% NW_European is of course correct.
    In my own models I never find Protoboleraz_LCA.
    I have some Eastern admixture, which might be Hungarian. 5% seems a bit low.
    Did you admit the standard penalizing of nMonte3?

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to Huijbregts For This Useful Post:

     JMcB (02-10-2019)

Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Interesting post about Germanic-Baltic-Slavic and Satem
    By spruithean in forum Linguistics
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 02-09-2019, 01:33 PM
  2. Frisian or North Dutch but no known Dutch ancestors?
    By OnionLord in forum AncestryDNA
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 10-04-2017, 04:25 PM
  3. Baltic, Slavic, Germanic
    By paoloferrari in forum Linguistics
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 05-05-2017, 10:23 PM
  4. Lecture- Genomic Data and Longobard History . Birmingham Uni.
    By JohnHowellsTyrfro in forum History (Medieval)
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 04-10-2017, 12:47 PM
  5. Poll: Pan-Slavic or individual Slavic language sections?
    By Administrator in forum Forum Support
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 09-25-2015, 04:07 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •