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Thread: Dutch Longobard? About Scandic and/or Baltic-Slavic influences.....

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radboud View Post
    Thanks, can you also do the pen=0,001 version for me if you have some spare time?
    Of course:

    [1] "distance%=1.9411"


    Radboud


    Beaker_Britain,35.8
    Beaker_Mittelelbe-Saale,32.4
    Beaker_Hungary,10.8
    Beaker_Czech,7.6
    Beaker_Bavaria,7.4
    Beaker_The_Netherlands,1.4

    Iberia_ChL,0.8
    Petrovka_MLBA,0.6
    Scotland_N,0.6
    Beaker_Italy_North,0.4
    Maros,0.4
    Baden_LCA,0.2
    Balkans_BA,0.2
    Balkans_ChL,0.2
    Beaker_Iberia,0.2
    Beaker_Poland,0.2
    England_N,0.2
    Globular_Amphora_Poland,0.2
    Iberia_Central_CA,0.2
    Sweden_MN,0.2


    and for Finn with pen=0.001
    [1] "distance%=2.2409"


    Finn


    Beaker_Czech,27.4
    Beaker_Bavaria,27
    Beaker_Britain,26.6
    BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN,11.4
    Scotland_N,1.8
    Beaker_Mittelelbe-Saale,1.2

    Beaker_France,0.8
    Baden_LCA,0.4
    Beaker_France_South,0.4
    Beaker_Iberia,0.4
    Beaker_The_Netherlands,0.4
    Blatterhole_MN,0.4
    CWC_Baltic,0.4
    Beaker_Hungary,0.2
    England_N,0.2
    Globular_Amphora_Poland,0.2
    Globular_Amphora_Ukraine,0.2
    Hungary_BA,0.2
    Iberia_Central_CA,0.2
    Protoboleraz_LCA,0.2
     
    Paper Trail MyHeritage K36 G25 Mod. FTDNA
    NW Croatian 87.5%
    Slovenian 6.25%
    Unknown 6.25%
    E. Europe 35.7%
    Balkan 34.4%
    Scandinavia 21.2%
    Baltic 8.7%
    Grenzmark 0.94
    Czechs 0.93,
    Hungary 0.91
    Volhyn 0.91,
    C. Rusyns 0.91
    Slovenia 0.91
    Czech 1.79
    Hungarian 2.02
    Slovenian 2.07
    Croatian 2.39
    Ukrainian 3.01
    East Europe 99%
    Trace 1%

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  3. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by ph2ter View Post
    Of course:

    [1] "distance%=1.9411"


    Radboud


    Beaker_Britain,35.8
    Beaker_Mittelelbe-Saale,32.4
    Beaker_Hungary,10.8
    Beaker_Czech,7.6
    Beaker_Bavaria,7.4
    Beaker_The_Netherlands,1.4

    Iberia_ChL,0.8
    Petrovka_MLBA,0.6
    Scotland_N,0.6
    Beaker_Italy_North,0.4
    Maros,0.4
    Baden_LCA,0.2
    Balkans_BA,0.2
    Balkans_ChL,0.2
    Beaker_Iberia,0.2
    Beaker_Poland,0.2
    England_N,0.2
    Globular_Amphora_Poland,0.2
    Iberia_Central_CA,0.2
    Sweden_MN,0.2


    and for Finn with pen=0.001
    [1] "distance%=2.2409"


    Finn


    Beaker_Czech,27.4
    Beaker_Bavaria,27
    Beaker_Britain,26.6
    BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN,11.4
    Scotland_N,1.8
    Beaker_Mittelelbe-Saale,1.2

    Beaker_France,0.8
    Baden_LCA,0.4
    Beaker_France_South,0.4
    Beaker_Iberia,0.4
    Beaker_The_Netherlands,0.4
    Blatterhole_MN,0.4
    CWC_Baltic,0.4
    Beaker_Hungary,0.2
    England_N,0.2
    Globular_Amphora_Poland,0.2
    Globular_Amphora_Ukraine,0.2
    Hungary_BA,0.2
    Iberia_Central_CA,0.2
    Protoboleraz_LCA,0.2

    As a comparison, some similarity with Finn in our top populations.

    pen=0.001
    [1] "distance%=1.3402"


    JMcB


    Beaker_Czech,36.6
    Beaker_Britain,27.8
    Beaker_Bavaria,12
    BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN,6.2
    Beaker_Mittelelbe-Saale,3.2
    Scotland_CA_EBA,2.4
    Beaker_Iberia,1.6
    Scotland_N,1.6
    Beaker_The_Netherlands,1

    Iberia_Central_CA,0.8
    Beaker_France_South,0.6
    Globular_Amphora_Poland,0.6
    Globular_Amphora_Ukraine,0.6
    Iberia_ChL,0.6
    Petrovka_MLBA,0.6
    Sweden_MN,0.6
    Beaker_France,0.4
    CWC_Czech_o,0.4
    Nordic_LN,0.4
    Portugal_MN,0.4
    Baden_LCA,0.2
    Beaker_Poland,0.2
    Blatterhole_HG,0.2
    CWC_Baltic,0.2
    Hungary_BA,0.2
    Iberia_MN,0.2
    Ukraine_Eneolithic,0.2
    Wales_N,0.2

    I had to look up BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN but then again, I have to look up a lot of things on this forum. ;-)
    Last edited by JMcB; 02-11-2019 at 09:00 PM.
    Known Paper Trail: 45.3% English, 29.7% Scottish, 12.5% Irish, 6.25% German & 6.25% Italian. Or: 87.5% British Isles, 6.25% German & 6.25% Italian.
    LivingDNA: 88.1% British Isles (59.7% English, 27% Scottish & 1.3% Irish), 5.9% Europe South (Aegian 3.4%, Tuscany 1.3%, Sardinia 1.1%), 4.4% Europe NW (Scandinavia) & 1.6% Europe East, (Mordovia).
    FT Big Y: I1-Z140 branch I-F2642 >Y1966 >Y3649 >A13241 >Y3647 >A13248 (circa 930 AD) >A13242/YSEQ (circa 1075 AD) >A13243/YSEQ (circa 1660 AD).

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  5. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by ph2ter View Post
    Volat, this short movie shows how the Slavs spread: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqGBRGTIpGk
    This is the Dutch version
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=js8iFSTOjKc#


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  7. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by ph2ter View Post
    Of course:

    [1] "distance%=1.9411"


    Radboud


    Beaker_Britain,35.8
    Beaker_Mittelelbe-Saale,32.4
    Beaker_Hungary,10.8
    Beaker_Czech,7.6
    Beaker_Bavaria,7.4
    Beaker_The_Netherlands,1.4

    Iberia_ChL,0.8
    Petrovka_MLBA,0.6
    Scotland_N,0.6
    Beaker_Italy_North,0.4
    Maros,0.4
    Baden_LCA,0.2
    Balkans_BA,0.2
    Balkans_ChL,0.2
    Beaker_Iberia,0.2
    Beaker_Poland,0.2
    England_N,0.2
    Globular_Amphora_Poland,0.2
    Iberia_Central_CA,0.2
    Sweden_MN,0.2


    and for Finn with pen=0.001
    [1] "distance%=2.2409"


    Finn


    Beaker_Czech,27.4
    Beaker_Bavaria,27
    Beaker_Britain,26.6
    BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN,11.4
    Scotland_N,1.8
    Beaker_Mittelelbe-Saale,1.2

    Beaker_France,0.8
    Baden_LCA,0.4
    Beaker_France_South,0.4
    Beaker_Iberia,0.4
    Beaker_The_Netherlands,0.4
    Blatterhole_MN,0.4
    CWC_Baltic,0.4
    Beaker_Hungary,0.2
    England_N,0.2
    Globular_Amphora_Poland,0.2
    Globular_Amphora_Ukraine,0.2
    Hungary_BA,0.2
    Iberia_Central_CA,0.2
    Protoboleraz_LCA,0.2
    Thanks! I personally have an extreme focus on the context....In your previous posting it became perfectly clear that I have a shot of NE European, but I don't know what the relevance of BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN is in this respect.
    Last edited by Finn; 02-11-2019 at 06:40 PM.

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  9. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    Thanks! I personally I have an extreme focus on the context....In your previous posting it became perfectly clear that I have a shot of NE European, but I don't know what the relevance of BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN is in this respect.
    At first I thought that with pen=0.001 nMonte chose BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN to compensate your high WHG. In runs withhout pen nMonte chose CWC, Baltic_BA, Avar Szolad or Lithuanian to compensate the same high WHG.
    But BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN has high amount of Steppe and not so high WHG as I thought, so I don't know why he is classified as Late Neolithic:
    [1] "distance%=3.5276"


    BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN:I0059


    STEPPE,54
    EEF,31.8
    WHG,14.2
     
    Paper Trail MyHeritage K36 G25 Mod. FTDNA
    NW Croatian 87.5%
    Slovenian 6.25%
    Unknown 6.25%
    E. Europe 35.7%
    Balkan 34.4%
    Scandinavia 21.2%
    Baltic 8.7%
    Grenzmark 0.94
    Czechs 0.93,
    Hungary 0.91
    Volhyn 0.91,
    C. Rusyns 0.91
    Slovenia 0.91
    Czech 1.79
    Hungarian 2.02
    Slovenian 2.07
    Croatian 2.39
    Ukrainian 3.01
    East Europe 99%
    Trace 1%

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  11. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
     
    Paper Trail MyHeritage K36 G25 Mod. FTDNA
    NW Croatian 87.5%
    Slovenian 6.25%
    Unknown 6.25%
    E. Europe 35.7%
    Balkan 34.4%
    Scandinavia 21.2%
    Baltic 8.7%
    Grenzmark 0.94
    Czechs 0.93,
    Hungary 0.91
    Volhyn 0.91,
    C. Rusyns 0.91
    Slovenia 0.91
    Czech 1.79
    Hungarian 2.02
    Slovenian 2.07
    Croatian 2.39
    Ukrainian 3.01
    East Europe 99%
    Trace 1%

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  13. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    Based on the W-Euroasian coordinates member Huijbregts made some fine analyses() about my auDNA, this was the result:

    Germany_Medieval,86
    Avar_Hungary_Szolad,13
    Sweden_MN,1


    I'm of North Dutch descent. German Mediaval is in that sense no surprise. But the Avar Szolad?

    Member Tomenable made an analysis and the Avar-Szolad are to be qualified as a kind of Balto-Slavic.

    Based on G25 nMonte webrunner, this is absent among Dutch and generally in West-Europe, not even among the early Anglo-Saxons:


    We only see a trace among the Norwegians only along the Swedish we get a pretty amount of Avar-Szolad.

    The Swedish amount is no surprise see a very big amount of Avar-Szolad among Rise174 that's a Swedish migration time sample, almost 1/4!


    When I take my family and member Radboud, it's there in my family's samples and not in Radboud's sample:



    Is in my case the Balto-Slavic influence direct or recent or is this indirect, due to a Swedish influence?

    I have no known recent Balto-Slavic ancestors.....So I guess the biggest chance is that in the turmoil of the big population migration there was a Swedish (or East Danish) kind of influence.

    So in the in the end a kind of Longobard?
    Actually the current King of the Netherlands belongs to R1a-S18681, which is a slavic line. He got it from a german ancestor and i guess much if not most of the slavic-like admixture in the Netherlands was mediated by Germans, who can have in some cases very much slavic admixture.
    Y-DNA: R1a> R-M417> R-Z645> R-Z93> R-Z94> R-Y3 (Sredny Stog culture)> R-L657> R-Y4(Andronovo)> R-Y6> R-Y5> R-Y920* (Pashtun)

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  15. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldmountains View Post
    Actually the current King of the Netherlands belongs to R1a-S18681, which is a slavic line. He got it from a german ancestor and i guess much if not most of the slavic-like admixture in the Netherlands was mediated by Germans, who can have in some cases very much slavic admixture.
    The European Queens and kings and high nobility are not representive for the common population, in the case of the current Dutch king his father is Claus von Amsberg, the Von Amsbergs are partly von Mecklenburg Vorpommern, close to the R1A center.....

    The general common Dutch have no Baltic touch!
    Last edited by Finn; 02-12-2019 at 08:20 AM.

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  17. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by ph2ter View Post
    Of course:

    [1] "distance%=1.9411"


    Radboud


    Beaker_Britain,35.8
    Beaker_Mittelelbe-Saale,32.4
    Beaker_Hungary,10.8
    Beaker_Czech,7.6
    Beaker_Bavaria,7.4
    Beaker_The_Netherlands,1.4

    Iberia_ChL,0.8
    Petrovka_MLBA,0.6
    Scotland_N,0.6
    Beaker_Italy_North,0.4
    Maros,0.4
    Baden_LCA,0.2
    Balkans_BA,0.2
    Balkans_ChL,0.2
    Beaker_Iberia,0.2
    Beaker_Poland,0.2
    England_N,0.2
    Globular_Amphora_Poland,0.2
    Iberia_Central_CA,0.2
    Sweden_MN,0.2


    and for Finn with pen=0.001
    [1] "distance%=2.2409"


    Finn


    Beaker_Czech,27.4
    Beaker_Bavaria,27
    Beaker_Britain,26.6
    BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN,11.4
    Scotland_N,1.8
    Beaker_Mittelelbe-Saale,1.2

    Beaker_France,0.8
    Baden_LCA,0.4
    Beaker_France_South,0.4
    Beaker_Iberia,0.4
    Beaker_The_Netherlands,0.4
    Blatterhole_MN,0.4
    CWC_Baltic,0.4
    Beaker_Hungary,0.2
    England_N,0.2
    Globular_Amphora_Poland,0.2
    Globular_Amphora_Ukraine,0.2
    Hungary_BA,0.2
    Iberia_Central_CA,0.2
    Protoboleraz_LCA,0.2
    Hi Ph2ter - Could you do one of these models for me if possible?

    ,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
    Jessie_scaled,0.138864,0.136081,0.064488,0.052003, 0.036314,0.017291,0.001645,0.006231,0.004909,-0.00328,-0.009094,0.004646,-0.011298,-0.009771,0.029994,0.005701,-0.007041,-0.004434,0.000377,0.007879,0.007112,0.007296,-0.005793,0.010845,-0.000479

    ,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
    Jessie_unscaled,0.0122,0.0134,0.0171,0.0161,0.0118 ,0.0062,0.0007,0.0027,0.0024,-0.0018,-0.0056,0.0031,-0.0076,-0.0071,0.0221,0.0043,-0.0054,-0.0035,0.0003,0.0063,0.0057,0.0059,-0.0047,0.009,-0.0004

    I'm not Dutch so if not applicable I understand.

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  19. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessie View Post
    Hi Ph2ter - Could you do one of these models for me if possible?

    ,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
    Jessie_scaled,0.138864,0.136081,0.064488,0.052003, 0.036314,0.017291,0.001645,0.006231,0.004909,-0.00328,-0.009094,0.004646,-0.011298,-0.009771,0.029994,0.005701,-0.007041,-0.004434,0.000377,0.007879,0.007112,0.007296,-0.005793,0.010845,-0.000479

    ,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
    Jessie_unscaled,0.0122,0.0134,0.0171,0.0161,0.0118 ,0.0062,0.0007,0.0027,0.0024,-0.0018,-0.0056,0.0031,-0.0076,-0.0071,0.0221,0.0043,-0.0054,-0.0035,0.0003,0.0063,0.0057,0.0059,-0.0047,0.009,-0.0004

    I'm not Dutch so if not applicable I understand.
    I have a thread for that in Ancient section, G25 plots.

    [1] "distance%=1.9318"


    Jessie


    Beaker_Czech,34.8
    Beaker_Poland,17.6
    Beaker_Britain,17.2
    Beaker_Mittelelbe-Saale,10.4
    Beaker_The_Netherlands,7.4
    Beaker_Bavaria,4.6
    Beaker_France_South,2.4
    Scotland_N,1.2
    Iberia_ChL,1
    Beaker_Iberia,0.8
    CWC_Baltic,0.6
    England_N,0.6
    Globular_Amphora_Ukraine,0.6
    Baden_LCA,0.2
    Beaker_Hungary,0.2
    Globular_Amphora_Poland,0.2
    Iberia_Central_CA,0.2
     
    Paper Trail MyHeritage K36 G25 Mod. FTDNA
    NW Croatian 87.5%
    Slovenian 6.25%
    Unknown 6.25%
    E. Europe 35.7%
    Balkan 34.4%
    Scandinavia 21.2%
    Baltic 8.7%
    Grenzmark 0.94
    Czechs 0.93,
    Hungary 0.91
    Volhyn 0.91,
    C. Rusyns 0.91
    Slovenia 0.91
    Czech 1.79
    Hungarian 2.02
    Slovenian 2.07
    Croatian 2.39
    Ukrainian 3.01
    East Europe 99%
    Trace 1%

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