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Thread: The Italian Peninsula through Ancient DNA

  1. #1091
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    Quote Originally Posted by kolgeh View Post
    I don't know exact age of these samples. They are labeled as Iron Age. Yes, there is an ongoing study on a larger sample set.

    This is totally possible. but we should wait for more samples.
    Will this ongoing study with larger sample set also be published soon this year?
    In the samples obtained and analyzed until now, do you know from which location and time the oldest sample with T is found?

  2. #1092
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADW_1981 View Post
    It is, but I guess when you think of the origin of Etruscans, it might make sense. There seems to be a branch of I1 that is in the Balkans such as the poster above and it leaks down even into Albania. I'm not sure how closely related, if at all, it is to the traditional "Nordic", or "Germanic" branches in northern Germany, Scandinavia, or England. My distant cousin through my mother who used to post here and was avid in genetics is also an Italian I1, related on the paternal side, no less. I used to think the connection was through Normans or Germanic invasion, but this wildcard certainly throws a wrench into that theory.
    It's entirely possible that not all I1 was originally spread by Germanics. Some might predate them who might be from pre-BA survivors, and have nothing to do with Germanic migrations. But there certainly needs to be more Adna evidence to back that claim.

  3. #1093
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    Quote Originally Posted by manesh View Post
    Will this ongoing study with larger sample set also be published soon this year?
    In the samples obtained and analyzed until now, do you know from which location and time the oldest sample with T is found?
    I don't know. You should wait for the paper.

  4. #1094
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trojet View Post
    So J2b-L283. That's awesome news, although not surprising to me. Thank you!
    Are you thinking of the same branch as me? They’re probably CTS6190
    My Y Line: J2a-L210>Z489>Z482>Y15222

    My Maternal Y: R1b-U152>Z36>Y156527

    Other Y lines: 3x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: J2a-S25258>SK1336, 5x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: E-V13>A7135, 6x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: J1-Z2331>L829

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  6. #1095
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    Quote Originally Posted by Principe View Post
    Are you thinking of the same branch as me? They’re probably CTS6190
    Yes. In addition, I think other sub-branches are likely to appear, such as Z638>Y21045, Z1297>Y23094, etc. Maybe even something upstream of Z597. But let's see, hopefully they are good coverage.
    Last edited by Trojet; 08-25-2019 at 09:07 PM.

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  8. #1096
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    Quote Originally Posted by oz View Post
    That's one hell of a curveball for I1!
    I don't believe it until this paper gets released, it's totally unexpected. But it would be awesome and interesting if true.

    Another low quality sample I assume, no subclade assignment?
    I've just posted an observation on this at #450 here. I1 in an Etruscan may not be surprising.
    Last edited by JonikW; 08-25-2019 at 08:06 PM. Reason: Clarity
    Living DNA Cautious mode:
    Wales-related ancestry: 86.8%
    Cornwall: 8%
    North England-related ancestry: 5.2%
    Y line: Peak District, England. Big Y match: Scania, Sweden; TMRCA 1,280 ybp (YFull);
    mtDNA: traces to Glamorgan, Wales
    Mother's Y: traces to Llanvair Discoed, Wales

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  10. #1097
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    [QUOTE=Generalissimo;593893][quote][quote]Originally Posted by kolgeh
    Iron age Italian populations - including Etruscans and Italic tribes - were very homogeneous and predominantly R1b-U152+. Romans on the other hand autosomally were closer to Aegean populations and Y dna wise were very diverse including R1b-U152, R1b-P312(xU152), R1b-U106, T, G2a, I1, E1b, J2a, J2b and J1 haplogroups.



    You're making a fool of yourself.

    The new Y-haplogroups that arrived in Italy during the Roman period weren't associated with the spread of Italic languages into Italy, because that happened much earlier. In fact, a good proportion of the migrants belonging to T, G2a, J2a, J2b and J1 may have spoken Semitic, Hurrian and other non-Indo-European languages.
    The non-italic-etruscan immigrants were definitely mostly greeks from both around the Aegean to Greek colonies outside,hellenized populations from around the mediterranean(except Carthage) and Balkans and minor germanic and celtic tribes, going by history and what the autosomal leaks say.They were ranging mostly from greek islanders to cypriots...

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  12. #1098
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    Quote Originally Posted by manesh View Post
    Will this ongoing study with larger sample set also be published soon this year?
    In the samples obtained and analyzed until now, do you know from which location and time the oldest sample with T is found?
    Read Pichler paper 2009......genetic structure in contemorary south tyrolean isolated populace......circa 1500 bc for T
    Or there are 3 x T in Karsdorf germany from 5000bc ...and 2 x T for same period in Malek bulgaria

    I am not sure what you really need


    My Path = ( K-M9+, TL-P326+, T-M184+, L490+, M70+, PF5664+, L131+, L446+, CTS933+, CTS3767+, CTS8862+, Z19945+, Y70078+ )

  13. #1099
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    Quote Originally Posted by kolgeh View Post
    I don't know. You should wait for the paper.
    Quote Originally Posted by vettor View Post
    Read Pichler paper 2009......genetic structure in contemorary south tyrolean isolated populace......circa 1500 bc for T
    Or there are 3 x T in Karsdorf germany from 5000bc ...and 2 x T for same period in Malek bulgaria

    I am not sure what you really need
    I was asking for the oldest sample among the tested Iron Age and Roman period individuals (from Italy) with T, was not referring to the Bronze Age and Neolithic periods. I could have described my question wrongly. Maybe Kolgeh knows an answer to this?
    I want to know if the haplogroups like T, G2a, E1b, J were the markers of the immigrant (initial) early Iron Age(~700 BCE) Etruscans which have ancestry from Aegean populations. Since Kolgeh wrote that E1b and J are mainly from the Southern regions of Italy, and since R1b is responsible for the Northern local(since Italian Bronze Age there) IE speaking(Celtic, Italic) Central European Bell Beakers, and since I is responsible for the local Mesolithic(10100 - 9816 BCE) hunter gatherers of Italy(information from PRJEB32566), maybe T and G2a are responsible for the initial early Iron Age immigrant elite Etruscans (from Central Italian regions). Kolgeh, what do you think about this?

  14. #1100
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    Quote Originally Posted by manesh View Post
    I was asking for the oldest sample among the tested Iron Age and Roman period individuals (from Italy) with T, was not referring to the Bronze Age and Neolithic periods. I could have described my question wrongly. Maybe Kolgeh knows an answer to this?
    I want to know if the haplogroups like T, G2a, E1b, J were the markers of the immigrant (initial) early Iron Age(~700 BCE) Etruscans which have ancestry from Aegean populations. Since Kolgeh wrote that E1b and J are mainly from the Southern regions of Italy, and since R1b is responsible for the Northern local(since Italian Bronze Age there) IE speaking(Celtic, Italic) Central European Bell Beakers, and since I is responsible for the local Mesolithic(10100 - 9816 BCE) hunter gatherers of Italy(information from PRJEB32566), maybe T and G2a are responsible for the initial early Iron Age immigrant elite Etruscans (from Central Italian regions). Kolgeh, what do you think about this?
    I do not think it will help you because all haplogroups in italy today where already in italy in the late bronze age or before


    My Path = ( K-M9+, TL-P326+, T-M184+, L490+, M70+, PF5664+, L131+, L446+, CTS933+, CTS3767+, CTS8862+, Z19945+, Y70078+ )

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