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Thread: The Italian Peninsula through Ancient DNA

  1. #831
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    So going by the leaks posted here, the Romans would be like Spaniards?

  2. #832
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adules View Post
    So going by the leaks posted here, the Romans would be like Spaniards?
    it is the otherway around
    #98 romans are like east-med etruscans(and italics) are like south-west
    published imperial (57-208calCE) roman I8216 from empuries fits the former range

    Quote Originally Posted by Ariel90 View Post
    I think that there are a lot of very good reasons to belive in a decent amount of continuity in Northern Italy, and moder N Italians are not a mix of Collegno outliers and Lombards, you get too much East med and too much Northern European if you try, also the Y-Dna composition in Northern Italy does not make a lot of sense if that was the case. Also the three samples in Collegno samples are not necessarly representative of all early Medieval Northern Italy, considering also that there are Collegno samples that are fairly close to modern Northern Italians.
    this here is the homepage of the longobard project and the list of the future to be published sites
    https://genetichistory.ias.edu/
    https://genetichistory.ias.edu/conte...and-procedures
    i think the future pubs will show what was happening in north italy, who where the pre existig locals and who were the barbarians in full spectrum, collegno is just a sneak peak of the first phase 570-630ad and the non-longobard locals were what they were there and CL36 of the third phase ~700ad is a one out of one coincidence or maybe exactly not
    Last edited by alexfritz; Today at 08:38 PM.
    Geno2.0NG 51%SEurope 19%WCEurope 13%Scandinavia 5%AsiaMinor 4%EEurope 4%GB&Ireland 3%Arabia myOrigins 52%WCEurope 40%SEEurope 5%BritishIsles 3%WMiddleEast DNA.Land 49%NWEuropean 27%SEuropean 13%MedIslander 11%Sardinian myHeritage 51.8%NWEuropean 33.2%Italian 7.9%Greek&SouthItalian 7.1%Balkan gencove 29%NItaly 19%EMed 15%NBritishIsles 12%SWEurope 10%NCEurope 9%Scandinavia 6%NEEurope GenePlazaK29 54.4%NWEurope 37.6%Greek/Albania 5.6%WAsian 2.4%SWAsia

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  4. #833
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexfritz View Post
    it is the otherway around
    #98 romans are like east-med etruscans(and italics) are like south-west
    published imperial (57-208calCE) roman I8216 from empuries fits that range aswell



    this here is the homepage of the longobard project and the list of the future to be published sites
    https://genetichistory.ias.edu/
    https://genetichistory.ias.edu/conte...and-procedures
    i think the future pubs will show what was happening in north italy, who where the pre existig locals and who were the barbarians in full spectrum, collegno is just a sneak peak of the first phase 570-630ad and the non-longobard locals were what they were there and CL36 of the third phase ~700ad is a one out of one coincidence or maybe exactly not
    So just 100 years was enough to shift the entire Italian Penisula with like 8-10 milion citizens. Northern Italy today is not even between Germany and Crete, try to draw a line on a simple PCA, actually it's like between Spain and Central Italy.
    Last edited by Ariel90; Today at 08:16 PM.

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  6. #834
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    Australia Italy Veneto Friuli Italy Trentino Alto Adige Austria Tirol Germany Palatinate
    Alpine ancient people are not germanic, italia, slavic , they are alpine people......which is why i called out for a pure alpine admixture to be done years ago

    Father's Mtdna .........T2b17
    Grandfather's Mtdna .......T1a1e
    Sons Mtdna .......K1a4o
    Maternal Grandfather paternal......I1d1-P109
    Maternal side Grandfather .......R1b-S8172
    Wife's Ydna .....R1a-Z282

    My Path = ( K-M9+, TL-P326+, T-M184+, L490+, M70+, PF5664+, L131+, L446+, CTS933+, CTS3767+, CTS8862+, Z19945+, Y70078+ )

  7. #835
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    Late bronze age italy.......what we know.
    North west italy ....Ligures
    North east italy.....Euganei
    Eastern central italy.....umbri
    Sicily west......punic
    Sicily east.....corinthian greeks

    Southern italy ....greeks

    Missing.....western central italy...????
    And western southern italy...most likely oscans here

    Father's Mtdna .........T2b17
    Grandfather's Mtdna .......T1a1e
    Sons Mtdna .......K1a4o
    Maternal Grandfather paternal......I1d1-P109
    Maternal side Grandfather .......R1b-S8172
    Wife's Ydna .....R1a-Z282

    My Path = ( K-M9+, TL-P326+, T-M184+, L490+, M70+, PF5664+, L131+, L446+, CTS933+, CTS3767+, CTS8862+, Z19945+, Y70078+ )

  8. #836
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    [1] "distance%=1.1188 / distance=0.011188"


    Italian_Bergamo
    "Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2" [Probably Classical Greeks] 30.45
    "Iberia_Northeast_Empuries1" [Probably Celtiberian or Celtiberian-like] 25.15
    "Beaker_Italy_North" [Italics, or other western IE speakers] 20.85
    "Italy_Medieval_Collegno:CL151" [Langobards] 15.5
    "Mycenaean" 4.25
    "Greek_Crete" 3.8
    "Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1" 0
    "Beaker_Sicily_no_steppe" 0
    "Cypriot" 0
    "Portugal_MN" 0
    "Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o2" 0

    The only true east med present here is the 3.8% Crete. Not much if modern N Italians were a mix of Langobards and Collegno outliers which plot even south of Sicily or Crete. And I do think this model is very fair, if you try something like this with modern Southern Italians the East med component is super evident.

    [1] "distance%=1.1018 / distance=0.011018"


    Italian_South
    "Cypriot" 27.25
    "Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1" 17.05
    "Greek_Crete" 16.1
    "Italy_Medieval_Collegno:CL151" 13
    "Mycenaean" 9.15
    "Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2" 8
    "Iberia_Northeast_Empuries1" 6.55
    "Beaker_Sicily_no_steppe" 1.45
    "Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o2" 1.45
    "Beaker_Italy_North" 0
    "Portugal_MN" 0
    Last edited by Ariel90; Today at 10:17 PM.

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  10. #837
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ariel90 View Post
    The only true east med present here is the 3.8% Crete. Not much if modern N Italians were a mix of Langobards and Collegno outliers that plot even south of Sicily or Crete. And I do think this model is very fair, if you try something like this with modern Southern Italians the East med component is super evident.

    [1] "distance%=1.1018 / distance=0.011018"


    Italian_South
    "Cypriot" 27.25
    "Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1" 17.05
    "Greek_Crete" 16.1
    "Italy_Medieval_Collegno:CL151" 13
    "Mycenaean" 9.15
    "Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2" 8
    "Iberia_Northeast_Empuries1" 6.55
    "Beaker_Sicily_no_steppe" 1.45
    "Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o2" 1.45
    "Beaker_Italy_North" 0
    "Portugal_MN" 0

    Interesting Cyprus here is favored over Crete. Why might this be, when South Italians and Cretans are so genetically close?

    Then again I have long proposed now we revise how we view Cyprus and really, South Italians/Cretans and Cypriots are pretty close too.

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  12. #838
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sikeliot View Post
    Interesting Cyprus here is favored over Crete. Why might this be, when South Italians and Cretans are so genetically close?

    Then again I have long proposed now we revise how we view Cyprus and really, South Italians/Cretans and Cypriots are pretty close too.
    Because there are no Middle Eastern references in the mix and Nmonte wants to add all the East Med/Levant needed to calculate S Italians correctly and to add a lot of Cyprus is the easiest way to do that.

  13. #839
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ariel90 View Post
    Because there are no Middle Eastern references in the mix and Nmonte wants to add all the East Med/Levant needed to calculate S Italians correctly and to add a lot of Cyprus is the easiest way to do that.
    Makes sense. You could probably also end up with an equally accurate result by removing Cyprus, replacing it with about 15-20% Lebanese, and then adding the remainder of the difference to Crete.

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