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Thread: The Italian Peninsula through Ancient DNA

  1. #901
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    I wonder what role these type of people have to play. There was a couple of these Sicilian Beakers in the Global 25 datasheet but they have since been removed for whatever reason. They appear to be quite different from what most of the upcoming samples sound like.

    [1] distance%=5.3559 / distance=0.053559

    Beaker_Sicily:I4930

    Barcin_N 82.15
    Yamnaya_Samara 8.8
    Iran_N 6.9
    WHG 2.15

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  3. #902
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    My opinion is fairly simple, half of Europe is not on the IBERIA CA-NORTHERN BEAKERS cline. "Why" it's an interesting question, but many ancient samples aren't on the cline either, including Italians Beakers and the other Italians BA samples that we have (around 10, some are on the global 25 sheet), also some other beakers from France and Switzerland, and also some non beaker samples like Yamnaya Bulgaria, Vucedol, Balkan BA. So I tried to "visualize" my thinking...
    Cattura2.PNG
    Last edited by Ariel90; 06-27-2019 at 08:35 PM.

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  5. #903
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ariel90 View Post
    My opinion is fairly simple, half of Europe is not on the IBERIA CA-NORTHERN BEAKERS cline. "Why" it's an interesting question, but many ancient samples aren't on the cline either, including Italians Beakers and the other Italians BA samples that we have (around 10, some are on the global 25 sheet), also some other beakers from France and Switzerland, and also some non beaker samples like Yamnaya Bulgaria, Vucedol, Balkan BA. So I tried to "visualize" my thinking...
    Cattura2.PNG
    Not that you said so, but them not being on the same cline does not mean however that they were not a mix of Late Neolithic EEF and Central European Bell Beaker.
    Paternal: R1b-U152 >> L2 >> FGC10543, Pietro della Rocca, b. 1559, Agira, Sicily, Italy
    Maternal: H4a1-T152C!, Maria Coto, b. ~1864, Galicia, Spain
    Mother's Paternal: J1+ FGC4745/FGC4766+ PF5019+, Gerardo Caprio, b. 1879, Caposele, Avellino, Campania, Italy
    Father's Maternal: T2b-C150T, Francisca Santa Cruz, b.1916, Garganchon, Burgos, Spain
    Paternal Great (x3) Grandfather: R1b-U106 >> L48 >> CTS2509, Filippo Ensabella, b.~1836, Agira, Sicily, Italy

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  7. #904
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    The Italian EBA samples with no steppe ancestry cluster below (as in, south of) most of the European MN samples, probably because their Italian MN ancestors had less WHG ancestry.

    So the cline running from CWC/Northern Beakers to Atlantic/Northern MN ends up higher than the cline running from CWC/northern Beakers to the Italian EBA with no steppe.

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  9. #905
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    Quote Originally Posted by Generalissimo View Post
    The Italian EBA samples with no steppe ancestry cluster below (as in, south of) most of the European MN samples, probably because their Italian MN ancestors had less WHG ancestry.

    So the cline running from CWC/Northern Beakers to Atlantic/Northern MN ends up higher than the cline running from CWC/northern Beakers to the Italian EBA with no steppe.
    That's why it would be surprising to see Iberia BA and Italian Beakers in the same place in that PCA. It would mean that the Beakers brought with them the farmer ancestry with more WHG (I guess it wouldn't be that unlikely if these groups were made entirely out of migrants)
    Last edited by Ariel90; 06-28-2019 at 11:53 AM.

  10. #906
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ariel90 View Post
    That's why it would be surprising to see Iberia BA and Italian Beakers in the same place in that PCA. It would mean that the Beakers brought with them the farmer ancestry with more WHG (I guess it wouldn't be that unlikely if these groups were made entirely out of migrants)
    The two clines diverge after they pass through modern Basques/Iberians, so some Beaker/BA Iberians and Italians do overlap, or at least they plot very close to each other.

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  12. #907
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  14. #908
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    I've read the first pages of the thread. I'll just cut short: so, did the early romans indeed mainly descend from greeks? And what about the etruscans? Could you link the article?

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  16. #909
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crow View Post
    I've read the first pages of the thread. I'll just cut short: so, did the early romans indeed mainly descend from greeks? And what about the etruscans? Could you link the article?
    Two of ninety pages is not enough. You should keep reading, especially the pages that contain PCR graphs.
    Paternal: R1b-U152 >> L2 >> FGC10543, Pietro della Rocca, b. 1559, Agira, Sicily, Italy
    Maternal: H4a1-T152C!, Maria Coto, b. ~1864, Galicia, Spain
    Mother's Paternal: J1+ FGC4745/FGC4766+ PF5019+, Gerardo Caprio, b. 1879, Caposele, Avellino, Campania, Italy
    Father's Maternal: T2b-C150T, Francisca Santa Cruz, b.1916, Garganchon, Burgos, Spain
    Paternal Great (x3) Grandfather: R1b-U106 >> L48 >> CTS2509, Filippo Ensabella, b.~1836, Agira, Sicily, Italy

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