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Thread: Model for seeing if you have Longobards? G25

  1. #1
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    Model for seeing if you have Longobards? G25

    What is the best one?
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    Quote Originally Posted by firemonkey View Post
    What is the best one?
    I don't think there is specific kind of model for this Firemonkey.

    I guess it's Germanic with a North East European touch. The Longobards most probably started in Sweden, that's Germanic with a touch Northeastern.

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  4. #3
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    I had my father's and mine chromosome by analysis done by someone whose name I won't mention as he's banned here.

    He said of my father's results -
    What is in Proto-Germanic cluster has very high North Dutch, but when you look at components there have very high North-Sea -40-50%, not seen among modern people. But it was encountered among Baiuvarii or Longobards if you remember my PCA with them.
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    i'd imagine anyone with German ethnicity would have this as they were a Germanic tribe and had a nice stay throughout central, western, and south central Europe.

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    Even you model the Lombards roughly, they will likely crush every other signature of the era. The Lombards, statistically speaking, are very potent. For what its worth, this is how I model it:

    Custom:AGUser_conqueror
    Fit 2.0493
    England Anglo-Saxon 0
    England Roman 1
    Germany Medieval 0
    Germany Medieval ACD 0
    Hungary Medieval Szolad 4
    Italy Medieval Collegno 94
    Sweden Viking Age 1

    Beaker
    Custom:AGUser_conqueror
    Fit 2.0873
    Beaker Bavaria 26
    Beaker Britain 9
    Beaker Czech 31
    Beaker France South 9
    Beaker Hungary 6
    Beaker Italy North 1
    Beaker Mittelelbe-Saale 11
    Beaker Poland 7

    Beaker K20
    Custom:AGUser_conqueror
    Fit 2.276
    Beaker Central Germany K20 18
    Beaker Czechia K20 40
    Beaker Hungary K20 12
    Beaker North Italy K20 6
    Beaker Scotland K20 2
    Beaker South England K20 3
    Beaker South France K20 8
    Beaker South Germany K20 11
    Last edited by Theconqueror; 02-12-2019 at 01:06 PM.
    K8: French East/German South/Austrian 26%, French North East/Belgian/German West 25%, French North 25%, Irish/Scottish/Welsh 10%, French South/French Basque 9%, German East/Czech/Austrian 5%
    K16: German/Czech/Austrian 33%, French/Belgian 23%, Portuguese/Spanish 22%, Irish/Scottish/Welsh 13%
    K36: German Rheinland-Pfalz 35%, French North West 27%, Spain 27%, Ireland 11%
    G25: German 40%, French 28%, Spanish 23%, Irish 9%
    K16: German 50%, French 19%, French East 9%, Spanish 8%

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    To be honest, I don’t really know if there’s a standard model because I think it’s going to depend on the individual.

    Be that as it may, here are some of the models I tried.


    First I ran this one.

    Custom:AGUser_JMcB
    Pen 0.001
    1000/500
    Filter 25%


    Fit 1.3053

    England Anglo-Saxon 4.2
    England Roman 35
    Hungary Medieval Szolad 27
    Italy Medieval Collegno 31
    Sweden Viking Age 2.8



    Then it occurred to me that running both of the Lombards together, might be redundant and a form of over fitting. So I tried doing them separately.


    Fit 1.4313

    England Anglo-Saxon 12.2
    England Roman 43.8
    Hungary Medieval Szolad 41.4
    Sweden Viking Age 2.6


    Fit 1.3111

    England Anglo-Saxon 4
    England Roman 43.4
    Italy Medieval Collegno 45.2
    Sweden Viking Age 7.4



    Then as an experiment, I tried running a model using my closest individual fits, from each population.


    Fit 1.3456

    England Anglo-Saxon--HS3-I0161, 11.6
    England Roman--3DT16, 16.6
    England Roman--6DT22, 11.8
    Hungary Medieval Szolad--SZ38, 42.6
    Italy Medieval Collegno--CL84, 9.6
    Sweden Viking Age--Sigtuna Grt035, 9.6



    Considering my ancestry and the samples available, this is the best I could come up with. How valid they are, that’s another question.
    Last edited by JMcB; 02-12-2019 at 05:46 PM.
    Known Paper Trail: 45.3% English, 29.7% Scottish, 12.5% Irish, 6.25% German & 6.25% Italian. Or: 87.5% British Isles, 6.25% German & 6.25% Italian.
    LivingDNA: 88.1% British Isles (59.7% English, 27% Scottish & 1.3% Irish), 5.9% Europe South (Aegian 3.4%, Tuscany 1.3%, Sardinia 1.1%), 4.4% Europe NW (Scandinavia) & 1.6% Europe East, (Mordovia).
    FT Big Y: I1-Z140 branch I-F2642 >Y1966 >Y3649 >A13241 >Y3647 >A13248 (circa 930 AD) >A13242/YSEQ (circa 1075 AD) >A13243/YSEQ (circa 1660 AD).

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    1 England_Anglo-Saxon +England_Roman +Hungary_Medieval_Szolad +Italy_Medieval_Collegno +Sweden_Viking_Age Custom:AGUser_firemonkey 1.4632 Open Map 23.2 17.2 16 41.8 1.8

    1 England_Anglo-Saxon +England_Roman +Hungary_Medieval_Szolad +Sweden_Viking_Age Custom:AGUser_firemonkey 1.5816 Open Map 35.6 26.6 34.6 3.2



    1 England_Anglo-Saxon +England_Roman +Italy_Medieval_Collegno +Sweden_Viking_Age Custom:AGUser_firemonkey 1.4702 Open Map 27 20 50.2 2.8
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  13. #8
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    Looking at the Global25 "checkfit" area, Dad seems to have some affinity towards the Longobard samples as a group, maybe due to his mix of various NWEuro populations.

    Both Collegno and Szolad averages make his top 5:

    1 Custom:AGUser_Dewsloth_dad Belgian_Averaged Averaged 1.376
    2 Custom:AGUser_Dewsloth_dad French_Averaged Averaged 1.383
    3 Custom:AGUser_Dewsloth_dad French_East_Averaged Averaged 1.603
    4 Custom:AGUser_Dewsloth_dad Italy_Medieval_Collegno_Averaged Averaged 1.619
    5 Custom:AGUser_Dewsloth_dad Hungary_Medieval_Szolad_Averaged Averaged 1.686

    Also a lot of the individuals:

    13 Custom:AGUser_Dewsloth_dad Hungary_Medieval_Szolad SZ45 CE:505 2.328
    44 Custom:AGUser_Dewsloth_dad Hungary_Medieval_Szolad SZ23 CE:505 2.863
    92 Custom:AGUser_Dewsloth_dad Hungary_Medieval_Szolad SZ38 CE:505 3.167
    143 Custom:AGUser_Dewsloth_dad Hungary_Medieval_Szolad SZ18 CE:505 3.465
    173 Custom:AGUser_Dewsloth_dad Hungary_Medieval_Szolad SZ42 CE:505 3.584
    177 Custom:AGUser_Dewsloth_dad Hungary_Medieval_Szolad SZ5 CE:505 3.601
    207 Custom:AGUser_Dewsloth_dad Hungary_Medieval_Szolad SZ24 CE:505 3.761
    220 Custom:AGUser_Dewsloth_dad Hungary_Medieval_Szolad SZ27 3.815
    225 Custom:AGUser_Dewsloth_dad Hungary_Medieval_Szolad SZ14 CE:505 3.84
    233 Custom:AGUser_Dewsloth_dad Hungary_Medieval_Szolad SZ3 CE:505 3.869

    _and_

    40 Custom:AGUser_Dewsloth_dad Italy_Medieval_Collegno CL47 CE:671 2.826
    54 Custom:AGUser_Dewsloth_dad Italy_Medieval_Collegno CL102 CE:671 2.923
    63 Custom:AGUser_Dewsloth_dad Italy_Medieval_Collegno CL63 CE:671 2.964
    145 Custom:AGUser_Dewsloth_dad Italy_Medieval_Collegno CL57 CE:671 3.466
    149 Custom:AGUser_Dewsloth_dad Italy_Medieval_Collegno CL87 CE:671 3.488
    163 Custom:AGUser_Dewsloth_dad Italy_Medieval_Collegno CL94 CE:671 3.545
    213 Custom:AGUser_Dewsloth_dad Italy_Medieval_Collegno CL53 CE:671 3.785

    Now the ones he's closest to seem to be "50/50" individuals who may have had one "Northern" parent and one who may have been picked up along the long trek south.
    If I'd had to guess from paper and geography, I'd say our descent is likely Alemanni, Frank, Belgae, Gaul/Celt, Saxon/Angle and maybe Baiuvarii or Thuringii -- after 2000 years it could be all of the above.
    More samples sure wouldn't hurt.
    R1b>M269>L23>L51>L11>P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833 >S4281>S4268>Z17112 (S17075-)

    Y-cousin: 6DRIF-23 (DF19>>Z17112+, S17075+)

    Ancestors: Francis Cooke (M223/I2a2a) b1583; Hester Mahieu (Cooke) (J1c2 mtDNA) b.1584; Richard Warren (E-M35) b1578; Elizabeth Walker (Warren) (H1j mtDNA) b1583;
    John Mead (I2a1/P37.2) b1634; Rev. Joseph Hull (I1, L1301+ L1302-) b1595; Benjamin Harrington (M223/I2a2a-Y5729) b1618; Joshua Griffith (L21>DF13) b1593;
    John Wing (U106) b1584; Hermann Wilhelm (DF19) b1635

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    Distance 1.8964 (with Szolad) and 1.796 (Collegno in replacement )
    default pen

    1-England anglo saxon 20.83/20.83
    2-England Roman 1.67/10.83
    3-Szolad then Collegno 70/57.5
    4-Sweden Viking Age 7.5/10.83

    So what?

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    FWIW:

    England_Anglo-Saxon +England_Roman +Hungary_Medieval_Szolad +Sweden_Viking_Age Custom:AGUser_Dewsloth_dad 1.0559 Open Map 6.67 15.83 74.17 3.33

    England_Anglo-Saxon +England_Roman +Italy_Medieval_Collegno +Sweden_Viking_Age Custom:AGUser_Dewsloth_dad 0.8982 Open Map 9.17 14.17 75 1.67
    R1b>M269>L23>L51>L11>P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833 >S4281>S4268>Z17112 (S17075-)

    Y-cousin: 6DRIF-23 (DF19>>Z17112+, S17075+)

    Ancestors: Francis Cooke (M223/I2a2a) b1583; Hester Mahieu (Cooke) (J1c2 mtDNA) b.1584; Richard Warren (E-M35) b1578; Elizabeth Walker (Warren) (H1j mtDNA) b1583;
    John Mead (I2a1/P37.2) b1634; Rev. Joseph Hull (I1, L1301+ L1302-) b1595; Benjamin Harrington (M223/I2a2a-Y5729) b1618; Joshua Griffith (L21>DF13) b1593;
    John Wing (U106) b1584; Hermann Wilhelm (DF19) b1635

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