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Thread: Model for seeing if you have Longobards? G25

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dewsloth View Post
    Looking at the Global25 "checkfit" area, Dad seems to have some affinity towards the Longobard samples as a group, maybe due to his mix of various NWEuro populations.

    Both Collegno and Szolad averages make his top 5:

    1 Custom:AGUser_Dewsloth_dad Belgian_Averaged Averaged 1.376
    2 Custom:AGUser_Dewsloth_dad French_Averaged Averaged 1.383
    3 Custom:AGUser_Dewsloth_dad French_East_Averaged Averaged 1.603
    4 Custom:AGUser_Dewsloth_dad Italy_Medieval_Collegno_Averaged Averaged 1.619
    5 Custom:AGUser_Dewsloth_dad Hungary_Medieval_Szolad_Averaged Averaged 1.686

    Also a lot of the individuals:

    13 Custom:AGUser_Dewsloth_dad Hungary_Medieval_Szolad SZ45 CE:505 2.328
    44 Custom:AGUser_Dewsloth_dad Hungary_Medieval_Szolad SZ23 CE:505 2.863
    92 Custom:AGUser_Dewsloth_dad Hungary_Medieval_Szolad SZ38 CE:505 3.167
    143 Custom:AGUser_Dewsloth_dad Hungary_Medieval_Szolad SZ18 CE:505 3.465
    173 Custom:AGUser_Dewsloth_dad Hungary_Medieval_Szolad SZ42 CE:505 3.584
    177 Custom:AGUser_Dewsloth_dad Hungary_Medieval_Szolad SZ5 CE:505 3.601
    207 Custom:AGUser_Dewsloth_dad Hungary_Medieval_Szolad SZ24 CE:505 3.761
    220 Custom:AGUser_Dewsloth_dad Hungary_Medieval_Szolad SZ27 3.815
    225 Custom:AGUser_Dewsloth_dad Hungary_Medieval_Szolad SZ14 CE:505 3.84
    233 Custom:AGUser_Dewsloth_dad Hungary_Medieval_Szolad SZ3 CE:505 3.869

    _and_

    40 Custom:AGUser_Dewsloth_dad Italy_Medieval_Collegno CL47 CE:671 2.826
    54 Custom:AGUser_Dewsloth_dad Italy_Medieval_Collegno CL102 CE:671 2.923
    63 Custom:AGUser_Dewsloth_dad Italy_Medieval_Collegno CL63 CE:671 2.964
    145 Custom:AGUser_Dewsloth_dad Italy_Medieval_Collegno CL57 CE:671 3.466
    149 Custom:AGUser_Dewsloth_dad Italy_Medieval_Collegno CL87 CE:671 3.488
    163 Custom:AGUser_Dewsloth_dad Italy_Medieval_Collegno CL94 CE:671 3.545
    213 Custom:AGUser_Dewsloth_dad Italy_Medieval_Collegno CL53 CE:671 3.785

    Now the ones he's closest to seem to be "50/50" individuals who may have had one "Northern" parent and one who may have been picked up along the long trek south.
    If I'd had to guess from paper and geography, I'd say our descent is likely Alemanni, Frank, Belgae, Gaul/Celt, Saxon/Angle and maybe Baiuvarii or Thuringii -- after 2000 years it could be all of the above.
    More samples sure wouldn't hurt.
    He certainly does!

    Coincidentally, when I took a look at my closest ancient individual fit, Szolad SZ38, she turned out to be a little girl who died when she was about six and had an autosomal mix that matched mine almost exactly, (92% Northern European & 8% Italian). Whereas, I’m 94% Northern European and 6% Italian, approximately. So there’s no surprise there. She comes in at #22 on my list, just behind the England Roman Average at #19. So nowhere near as close as your Dad. I can only imagine what he would get, if you tried running him with the Lombards.

    Edit: that’s just about what I thought, 75%
    Last edited by JMcB; 02-12-2019 at 07:52 PM.
    Known Paper Trail: 45.3% English, 29.7% Scottish, 12.5% Irish, 6.25% German & 6.25% Italian. Or: 87.5% British Isles, 6.25% German & 6.25% Italian.
    LivingDNA: 88.1% British Isles (59.7% English, 27% Scottish & 1.3% Irish), 5.9% Europe South (Aegian 3.4%, Tuscany 1.3%, Sardinia 1.1%), 4.4% Europe NW (Scandinavia) & 1.6% Europe East, (Mordovia).
    FT Big Y: I1-Z140 branch I-F2642 >Y1966 >Y3649 >A13241 >Y3647 >A13248 (circa 930 AD) >A13242/YSEQ (circa 1075 AD) >A13243/YSEQ (circa 1660 AD).

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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trelvern View Post
    Distance 1.8964 (with Szolad) and 1.796 (Collegno in replacement )
    default pen

    1-England anglo saxon 20.83/20.83
    2-England Roman 1.67/10.83
    3-Szolad then Collegno 70/57.5
    4-Sweden Viking Age 7.5/10.83

    So what?

    Are there any French samples from that era you can add in or fashion your own model from. I happen to know the person who made that model and he’s a novice, stumbling around in the dark, whose ancestry is mostly English, Scottish & Irish. ;-)
    Known Paper Trail: 45.3% English, 29.7% Scottish, 12.5% Irish, 6.25% German & 6.25% Italian. Or: 87.5% British Isles, 6.25% German & 6.25% Italian.
    LivingDNA: 88.1% British Isles (59.7% English, 27% Scottish & 1.3% Irish), 5.9% Europe South (Aegian 3.4%, Tuscany 1.3%, Sardinia 1.1%), 4.4% Europe NW (Scandinavia) & 1.6% Europe East, (Mordovia).
    FT Big Y: I1-Z140 branch I-F2642 >Y1966 >Y3649 >A13241 >Y3647 >A13248 (circa 930 AD) >A13242/YSEQ (circa 1075 AD) >A13243/YSEQ (circa 1660 AD).

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  5. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dewsloth View Post
    FWIW:

    England_Anglo-Saxon +England_Roman +Hungary_Medieval_Szolad +Sweden_Viking_Age Custom:AGUser_Dewsloth_dad 1.0559 Open Map 6.67 15.83 74.17 3.33

    England_Anglo-Saxon +England_Roman +Italy_Medieval_Collegno +Sweden_Viking_Age Custom:AGUser_Dewsloth_dad 0.8982 Open Map 9.17 14.17 75 1.67
    Quote Originally Posted by JMcB View Post
    He certainly does!

    Coincidentally, when I took a look at my closest ancient individual fit, Szolad SZ38, she turned out to be a little girl who died when she was about six and had an autosomal mix that matched mine almost exactly, (92% Northern European & 8% Italian). Whereas, I’m 94% Northern European and 6% Italian, approximately. So there’s no surprise there. She comes in at #22 on my list, just behind the England Roman Average at #19. So nowhere near as close as your Dad. I can only imagine what he would get, if you tried running him with the Lombards.

    Edit: that’s just about what I thought, 75%
    Yeah, he looks like someone with 3 barbarians and a modern English person for grandparents.
    R1b>M269>L23>L51>L11>P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833 >S4281>S4268>Z17112 (S17075-)

    Y-cousin: 6DRIF-23 (DF19>>Z17112+, S17075+)

    Ancestors: Francis Cooke (M223/I2a2a) b1583; Hester Mahieu (Cooke) (J1c2 mtDNA) b.1584; Richard Warren (E-M35) b1578; Elizabeth Walker (Warren) (H1j mtDNA) b1583;
    John Mead (I2a1/P37.2) b1634; Rev. Joseph Hull (I1, L1301+ L1302-) b1595; Benjamin Harrington (M223/I2a2a-Y5729) b1618; Joshua Griffith (L21>DF13) b1593;
    John Wing (U106) b1584; Hermann Wilhelm (DF19) b1635

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  7. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMcB View Post
    He certainly does!

    Coincidentally, when I took a look at my closest ancient individual fit, Szolad SZ38, she turned out to be a little girl who died when she was about six and had an autosomal mix that matched mine almost exactly, (92% Northern European & 8% Italian). Whereas, I’m 94% Northern European and 6% Italian, approximately. So there’s no surprise there. She comes in at #22 on my list, just behind the England Roman Average at #19. So nowhere near as close as your Dad. I can only imagine what he would get, if you tried running him with the Lombards.

    Edit: that’s just about what I thought, 75%
    We will have to call you Lombardette :-)
    K8: French East/German South/Austrian 26%, French North East/Belgian/German West 25%, French North 25%, Irish/Scottish/Welsh 10%, French South/French Basque 9%, German East/Czech/Austrian 5%
    K36: French East/German South/Swiss German 33%, French North East/Belgian/German West 31%, French North Central 21%, Irish/Scottish/Welsh 9%, French South/ French Basque 6%
    K16: German 50%, French North West 19%, French North East 11%, Irish/English 11%, French South 9%

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  9. #15
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    CL63 is my closest Lombard match.

    Z764942 CL63

    Admix Results (sorted):
    # Population Percent
    2 Caucasian 24.47
    3 NorthEastEuropean 23.26
    4 Steppe 20.01
    5 Oceanic 0.91
    6 NearEast 0.41
    7 Indian 0.02
    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 German (Germany) 3.58
    2 French (EastFrance) 4.06
    3 French (NorthwestFrance) 4.13
    4 German (SouthGermany) 6.07
    5 Welsh (Wales) 6.25
    6 Provencal (Provence) 6.6
    7 French (France) 6.82
    8 Croat (Croatia) 6.89
    9 Serbian (Serbia) 6.92
    10 German_Lipsian ((Saxony)) 7.01
    K8: French East/German South/Austrian 26%, French North East/Belgian/German West 25%, French North 25%, Irish/Scottish/Welsh 10%, French South/French Basque 9%, German East/Czech/Austrian 5%
    K36: French East/German South/Swiss German 33%, French North East/Belgian/German West 31%, French North Central 21%, Irish/Scottish/Welsh 9%, French South/ French Basque 6%
    K16: German 50%, French North West 19%, French North East 11%, Irish/English 11%, French South 9%

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  11. #16
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    Rick Lombards location PCA v3.jpg

    My closest Lombards are:
    CL63
    CL47
    CL57
    SZ45
    SZ23
    SZ38
    K8: French East/German South/Austrian 26%, French North East/Belgian/German West 25%, French North 25%, Irish/Scottish/Welsh 10%, French South/French Basque 9%, German East/Czech/Austrian 5%
    K36: French East/German South/Swiss German 33%, French North East/Belgian/German West 31%, French North Central 21%, Irish/Scottish/Welsh 9%, French South/ French Basque 6%
    K16: German 50%, French North West 19%, French North East 11%, Irish/English 11%, French South 9%

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  13. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theconqueror View Post
    Rick Lombards location PCA v3.jpg

    My closest Lombards are:
    CL63
    CL47
    CL57
    SZ45
    SZ23
    SZ38
    Mine are:

    SZ38 @ 2.371
    CL84 @ 2.614
    SZ42 @ 2.906
    CL83 @ 2.981
    SZ23 @ 3.139
    SZ 7 @ 3.295
    CL87 @ 3.295

    After the first two, they start getting pretty far down my list.
    Last edited by JMcB; 02-13-2019 at 05:38 PM.
    Known Paper Trail: 45.3% English, 29.7% Scottish, 12.5% Irish, 6.25% German & 6.25% Italian. Or: 87.5% British Isles, 6.25% German & 6.25% Italian.
    LivingDNA: 88.1% British Isles (59.7% English, 27% Scottish & 1.3% Irish), 5.9% Europe South (Aegian 3.4%, Tuscany 1.3%, Sardinia 1.1%), 4.4% Europe NW (Scandinavia) & 1.6% Europe East, (Mordovia).
    FT Big Y: I1-Z140 branch I-F2642 >Y1966 >Y3649 >A13241 >Y3647 >A13248 (circa 930 AD) >A13242/YSEQ (circa 1075 AD) >A13243/YSEQ (circa 1660 AD).

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  15. #18
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    If I order by time era (details=time from BCE to CE) my correlated ancient (250 samples max) using nmonte runner check fit, I get:

    Group Name Details Fit
    Balkans_BA I2165 -2957 4.542
    Beaker_Hungary I3529 -2350 4.534
    Beaker_Czech I7210 -2350 4.535
    Beaker_Bavaria I5524 -2250 4.206
    Beaker_Bavaria I5529 -2250 4.258
    Beaker_Bavaria I6624 -2250 4.323
    Beaker_Bavaria I5520 -2250 4.453
    Beaker_Bavaria I6591 -2250 4.547
    Beaker_Bavaria I3590 -2237 4.172
    Beaker_Mittelelbe-Saale I0113 -2189 3.696
    Beaker_Czech I4885 -2150 4.318
    Beaker_Czech I4891 -2150 4.436
    Beaker_Czech I4887 -2120 3.37
    Beaker_France_South I3874 -2117 3.502
    Beaker_Czech I4888 -2109 3.366
    Beaker_Italy_North I2478 -2065 4.589
    Czech_EBA I7196 -1950 4.521
    Hallstatt_Bylany DA111 -775 3.833
    Hungary_Medieval_Szolad SZ45 505 3.784
    Hungary_Medieval_Szolad SZ23 505 3.803
    Hungary_Medieval_Szolad SZ38 505 3.844
    Hungary_Medieval_Szolad SZ14 505 4.025
    Hungary_Medieval_Szolad SZ18 505 4.176
    Italy_Medieval_Collegno CL63 671 2.802
    Italy_Medieval_Collegno CL47 671 3.293
    Italy_Medieval_Collegno CL57 671 3.521
    Italy_Medieval_Collegno CL94 671 3.886
    Italy_Medieval_Collegno CL102 671 4.552

    It is somewhat informative, and in line with actual models.
    K8: French East/German South/Austrian 26%, French North East/Belgian/German West 25%, French North 25%, Irish/Scottish/Welsh 10%, French South/French Basque 9%, German East/Czech/Austrian 5%
    K36: French East/German South/Swiss German 33%, French North East/Belgian/German West 31%, French North Central 21%, Irish/Scottish/Welsh 9%, French South/ French Basque 6%
    K16: German 50%, French North West 19%, French North East 11%, Irish/English 11%, French South 9%

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  17. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theconqueror View Post
    If I order by time era (details=time from BCE to CE) my correlated ancient (250 samples max) using nmonte runner check fit, I get:

    Group Name Details Fit
    Balkans_BA I2165 -2957 4.542
    Beaker_Hungary I3529 -2350 4.534
    Beaker_Czech I7210 -2350 4.535
    Beaker_Bavaria I5524 -2250 4.206
    Beaker_Bavaria I5529 -2250 4.258
    Beaker_Bavaria I6624 -2250 4.323
    Beaker_Bavaria I5520 -2250 4.453
    Beaker_Bavaria I6591 -2250 4.547
    Beaker_Bavaria I3590 -2237 4.172
    Beaker_Mittelelbe-Saale I0113 -2189 3.696
    Beaker_Czech I4885 -2150 4.318
    Beaker_Czech I4891 -2150 4.436
    Beaker_Czech I4887 -2120 3.37
    Beaker_France_South I3874 -2117 3.502
    Beaker_Czech I4888 -2109 3.366
    Beaker_Italy_North I2478 -2065 4.589
    Czech_EBA I7196 -1950 4.521
    Hallstatt_Bylany DA111 -775 3.833
    Hungary_Medieval_Szolad SZ45 505 3.784
    Hungary_Medieval_Szolad SZ23 505 3.803
    Hungary_Medieval_Szolad SZ38 505 3.844
    Hungary_Medieval_Szolad SZ14 505 4.025
    Hungary_Medieval_Szolad SZ18 505 4.176
    Italy_Medieval_Collegno CL63 671 2.802
    Italy_Medieval_Collegno CL47 671 3.293
    Italy_Medieval_Collegno CL57 671 3.521
    Italy_Medieval_Collegno CL94 671 3.886
    Italy_Medieval_Collegno CL102 671 4.552

    It is somewhat informative, and in line with actual models.


    Coincidentally, I just finished compiling a similar list based on my top 12 Ancient Average fits.


    #1 England_Roman_Averaged @ #19 (Fit 2.358)
    #2 Beaker_Czech_Averaged @ #24 (Fit 2.428)
    #3 England_IA_Averaged @#34 (Fit 2.538)
    #4 Beaker_Bavaria_Averaged @#40 (Fit 2.648)
    #5 Beaker_Mittelelbe-Saale_Averaged @#43 (Fit 2.674)
    #6 Beaker_Poland_Averaged @#48 (Fit 2.742)
    #7 Germany_Medieval_Averaged @#69 (Fit 2.886)
    #8 Scotland_LBA_Averaged @#71 (Fit 2.897)
    #9 Italy_Medieval_Collegno_Averaged @#75 (Fit 2.916)
    #10 Hungary_Medieval_Szolad_Averaged @#77 (Fit 2.925)
    #11 Poprad_Medieval_Averaged @#89 (Fit 2.966)
    #12 England_Anglo-Saxon_Averaged @#132 (Fit 3.14)


    Although, there are no dates but you can approximate them by their titles
    Last edited by JMcB; 02-13-2019 at 05:33 PM.
    Known Paper Trail: 45.3% English, 29.7% Scottish, 12.5% Irish, 6.25% German & 6.25% Italian. Or: 87.5% British Isles, 6.25% German & 6.25% Italian.
    LivingDNA: 88.1% British Isles (59.7% English, 27% Scottish & 1.3% Irish), 5.9% Europe South (Aegian 3.4%, Tuscany 1.3%, Sardinia 1.1%), 4.4% Europe NW (Scandinavia) & 1.6% Europe East, (Mordovia).
    FT Big Y: I1-Z140 branch I-F2642 >Y1966 >Y3649 >A13241 >Y3647 >A13248 (circa 930 AD) >A13242/YSEQ (circa 1075 AD) >A13243/YSEQ (circa 1660 AD).

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  19. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by sven.larson View Post
    So the question should be: "Who, among NW-Euro members, doesn't have Lombard affinity" Is there any such person? lol...

    All Germanics must be very similar back then.
    I think the question is, to what degree are different people of NW European ancestry, showing an affinity to the Lombards.
    Last edited by JMcB; 02-13-2019 at 08:00 PM.
    Known Paper Trail: 45.3% English, 29.7% Scottish, 12.5% Irish, 6.25% German & 6.25% Italian. Or: 87.5% British Isles, 6.25% German & 6.25% Italian.
    LivingDNA: 88.1% British Isles (59.7% English, 27% Scottish & 1.3% Irish), 5.9% Europe South (Aegian 3.4%, Tuscany 1.3%, Sardinia 1.1%), 4.4% Europe NW (Scandinavia) & 1.6% Europe East, (Mordovia).
    FT Big Y: I1-Z140 branch I-F2642 >Y1966 >Y3649 >A13241 >Y3647 >A13248 (circa 930 AD) >A13242/YSEQ (circa 1075 AD) >A13243/YSEQ (circa 1660 AD).

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