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Thread: Model for seeing if you have Longobards? G25

  1. #311
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    I was able to run these four averaged populations

    sample": "Custom:user_scaled",
    "fit": 2.0931,
    "England_Roman_Averaged": 56.67,
    "ITA_Collegno_Med_Averaged": 29.17,
    "England_Saxon_Averaged": 14.17,
    "SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna_Averaged": 0,
    "closestDistances": [
    "England_Roman_Averaged:Averaged: 2.270646",
    "England_Saxon_Averaged:Averaged: 3.176929",
    "ITA_Collegno_Med_Averaged:Averaged: 3.196947",
    "SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna_Averaged:Averaged: 5.668944"
    ]
    }
    ]

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  3. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by timberwolf View Post
    I can only run a maximum of four groups and this looks like a good model for me, can someone run this?

    ,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
    Timberwolf,0.0117,0.0136,0.0163,0.0123,0.0159,0.00 69,0.0042,0.0044,0.0036,0.0032,-0.0052,0.0066,-0.0124,-0.0073,0.0183,0.0014,-0.0107,0.0009,-0.0003,-0.0028,0.0051,0.0043,-0.0034,0.0087,-0.0014

    ,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
    Timberwolf_scaled,0.133173,0.138112,0.061471,0.039 729,0.048932,0.019243,0.00987,0.010153,0.007363,0. 005832,-0.008444,0.009891,-0.018434,-0.010046,0.024837,0.001856,-0.013951,0.00114,-0.000377,-0.003502,0.006364,0.005317,-0.00419,0.010483,-0.001676

    Hello Timberwolf,

    Just so you know, your coordinates are already in the drop down box on Poi’s Runner (Select Custom Users or Sponsors as Test Individuals).


    Custom:AGUser_Timberwolf
    1000 cycles
    500 batches
    Pen 0.001

    "fit": 1.8328,
    "England_Roman": 56.2,
    "DEU_Medieval": 21.8,
    "SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna": 20.6,
    "ITA_Collegno_Med_o2": 1.4,
    "England_Saxon": 0,


    "closestDistances":
    "England_Roman:6DT18: 2.904207",
    "SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_grt035: 2.924954",
    "England_Saxon:I0159: 3.017486",
    "England_Roman:6DT23: 3.076292",
    "England_Saxon:I0774: 3.094115",
    "England_Roman:6DT22: 3.228222",
    "England_Saxon:I0161: 3.312868",
    "England_Roman:3DT16: 3.355790",
    "DEU_Medieval:ALH_10: 3.358356",
    Known Paper Trail: 45.3% English, 29.7% Scottish, 12.5% Irish, 6.25% German & 6.25% Italian. Or: 87.5% British Isles, 6.25% German & 6.25% Italian.
    LivingDNA: 88.1% British Isles (59.7% English, 27% Scottish & 1.3% Irish), 5.9% Europe South (Aegian 3.4%, Tuscany 1.3%, Sardinia 1.1%), 4.4% Europe NW (Scandinavia) & 1.6% Europe East, (Mordovia).
    FT Big Y: I1-Z140 branch I-F2642 >Y1966 >Y3649 >A13241 >Y3647 >A13248 (circa 930 AD) >A13242/YSEQ (circa 1075 AD) >A13243/YSEQ (circa 1660 AD).

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  5. #313
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    I was just looking at the research paper. I think this fellow may be one of the more English/ Atlantic Isles leaning samples. Certainly one of if not the closest in my result. I will check again tomorrow.

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  7. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMcB View Post
    Out of curiosity, I went back to refresh my memory concerning the Viking sample I mentioned above and ran a Fit Check on him. Somewhere, I remembered seeing that he plotted with B&I which seems understandable considering the following:


    Input Group Name Details Fit

    1 SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_grt035 Welsh_Averaged Averaged 1.834
    2 SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_grt035 Orcadian_Averaged Averaged 1.843
    3 SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_grt035 Scottish_Averaged Averaged 1.981
    4 SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_grt035 Irish_Averaged Averaged 2.057
    5 SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_grt035 Norwegian_Averaged Averaged 2.077
    6 SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_grt035 Irish Irish51 Modern; 2.111
    7 SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_grt035 English_Cornwall HG00243 Modern; 2.153
    8 SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_grt035 Welsh WAL001 Modern; 2.161
    9 SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_grt035 English_Averaged Averaged 2.162
    10 SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_grt035 Orcadian HGDP00804 Modern; 2.166
    11 SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_grt035 Orcadian HGDP00797 Modern; 2.188
    12 SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_grt035 Icelandic_Averaged Averaged 2.21
    13 SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_grt035 England_Roman_Averaged Averaged 2.23
    14 SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_grt035 Irish Irish44 Modern; 2.246
    15 SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_grt035 Scottish Scottish24 Modern; 2.251




    Than I tried running the same model I tried before using all of the Viking individuals except vik_grt035 and got this:


    Custom:AGUser_JMcB
    1000 cycles
    500 batches

    Fit: 1.6528

    England_Roman": 62
    DEU_Medieval": 20
    England_Saxon": 13.2
    ITA_Collegno_Med_o1": 4
    SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna--vik_kls001": 0.8
    SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna--vik_84001": 0
    SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna--vik_84005": 0
    SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna--vik_97002": 0
    SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna--vik_KAL006": 0
    SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna--vik_grt036": 0
    SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna--vik_gtm021": 0
    SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna--vik_kal009": 0
    SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna--vik_nuf002": 0
    SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna--vik_stg020": 0
    SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna--vik_stg021": 0
    SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna--vik_stg026": 0
    SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna--vik_urm035": 0
    SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna--vik_urm160": 0




    Then, just to double check, I threw vik_grt035 back into the mix and got these results:


    Custom:AGUser_JMcB
    1000 cycles
    500 batches

    Fit: 1.5818

    England_Roman": 47.8
    SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna--vik_grt035": 27
    DEU_Medieval": 16.4
    ITA_Collegno_Med_o1": 4.2
    England_Saxon": 4
    SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna--vik_kls001": 0.6
    SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna--vik_84001": 0
    SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna--vik_84005": 0
    SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna--vik_97002": 0
    SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna--vik_KAL006": 0
    SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna--vik_grt036": 0
    SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna--vik_gtm021": 0
    SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna--vik_kal009": 0
    SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna--vik_nuf002": 0
    SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna--vik_stg020": 0
    SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna--vik_stg021": 0
    SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna--vik_stg026": 0
    SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna--vik_urm035": 0
    SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna--vik_urm160": 0




    So whoís matching who? ;-)
    Yes grt035 is the closest Sigtuna match to me as well.

    28 Custom:AGUser_Jessie SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna vik_grt035 2.366

    Some of the Sigtuna samples plot all over the place. Some are closer to British & Irish pops and some to Finnish and Eastern Europeans.

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  9. #315
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    "sample": "Custom:AGUser_firemonkey",
    "fit": 1.3729,
    "England_Saxon": 44.6,
    "DEU_Medieval": 26.6,
    "England_Roman": 19,
    "SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna--vik_nuf002": 5.6,
    "SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna--vik_stg021": 4.2,
    "ITA_Collegno_Med_o1": 0,
    "SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna--vik_84001": 0,
    "SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna--vik_84005": 0,
    "SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna--vik_97002": 0,
    "SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna--vik_KAL006": 0,
    "SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna--vik_grt036": 0,
    "SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna--vik_gtm021": 0,
    "SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna--vik_kal009": 0,
    "SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna--vik_kls001": 0,
    "SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna--vik_stg020": 0,
    "SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna--vik_stg026": 0,
    "SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna--vik_urm035": 0,
    "SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna--vik_urm160": 0,

    Throwing grt035 back in the mix

    "sample": "Custom:AGUser_firemonkey",
    "fit": 1.375,
    "England_Saxon": 38.6,
    "DEU_Medieval": 23.2,
    "England_Roman": 18.2,
    "SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna--vik_grt035": 9,
    "SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna--vik_nuf002": 7,
    "SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna--vik_stg021": 4,
    "ITA_Collegno_Med_o1": 0,
    "SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna--vik_84001": 0,
    "SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna--vik_84005": 0,
    "SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna--vik_97002": 0,
    "SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna--vik_KAL006": 0,
    "SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna--vik_grt036": 0,
    "SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna--vik_gtm021": 0,
    "SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna--vik_kal009": 0,
    "SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna--vik_kls001": 0,
    "SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna--vik_stg020": 0,
    "SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna--vik_stg026": 0,
    "SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna--vik_urm035": 0,
    "SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna--vik_urm160": 0,
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  11. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessie View Post
    Yes grt035 is the closest Sigtuna match to me as well.

    28 Custom:AGUser_Jessie SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna vik_grt035 2.366

    Some of the Sigtuna samples plot all over the place. Some are closer to British & Irish pops and some to Finnish and Eastern Europeans.
    Stg 021 is another close match for myself and my parents. She might also be another BI leaning sample. I believe this sample is an outlier based on strontium isotope analysis (please let me know if I am incorrect on this point). A fascinating study.

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  13. #317
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    Our results:

    "sample": "Custom:AGUser_finn",
    "fit": 1.3364,
    "England_Saxon": 47.5,
    "SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna": 31.67,
    "England_Roman": 14.17,
    "DEU_Medieval": 6.67,
    "ITA_Collegno_Med_o1": 0,

    "sample": "Custom:AGUser_finn_dad",
    "fit": 1.1197,
    "England_Saxon": 41.67,
    "SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna": 21.67,
    "DEU_Medieval": 20.83,
    "England_Roman": 15.83,
    "ITA_Collegno_Med_o1": 0,

    "sample": "Custom:AGUser_finn_mom",
    "fit": 1.4799,
    "England_Saxon": 50.83,
    "SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna": 23.33,
    "England_Roman": 16.67,
    "DEU_Medieval": 9.17,
    "ITA_Collegno_Med_o1": 0,

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  15. #318
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    I guess in NW Europe the Germanic (Lombardic) vs Celtic is not basically. See for example Jessie's Anglo-Saxon result....

    The mixtures between HG, ENF and Steppe is more basically. Of course the Steppe influx is the latest one. It spread with the BB influx trough whole NW Europe. Since then it's a a constant remix of these components. And regional factors are most probably crucial. For example a TRB hotspot/ pocket still leaves traces in the current regional populations, for example in my mom's result.

    And for example, the English-Saxon result:

    "sample": "England_Saxon:Average",
    "fit": 4.4447,
    "Yamnaya_RUS_Samara": 41.67,
    "Anatolia_Barcin_N": 35.83,
    "NOR_N_HG": 22.5,

    And Scotland EBA:

    "sample": "Scotland_CA_EBA:Average",
    "fit": 3.0665,
    "Yamnaya_RUS_Samara": 41.67,
    "Anatolia_Barcin_N": 35,
    "NOR_N_HG": 23.33,

    Are very close.....so 'Germanic' (Anglo-Saxon) and 'Celtic' (Scotland EBA) have basically not a different admixture.
    Of course there are things like drift and kinds of separation by distance and changes over time. These make in the end some differences.

    But in the end the remixing on regional level of HG, ENF and Steppe 'amounts' is IMO crucial. They do no strictly fit into national averages/ differences. And even between generations (see for example the difference between me and my parents or firemonkey and his dad). They are sometimes as big as difference between populations in NW Europe.

    I took as proxy:
    HG: Norway North HG
    ENF: Barcin N
    Steppe: Yamna Samara

    Results with NW European ancient results, national averages and Anthrogenica members.
    Last edited by Finn; 05-12-2019 at 08:11 PM.

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  17. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aroon1916 View Post
    Stg 021 is another close match for myself and my parents. She might also be another BI leaning sample. I believe this sample is an outlier based on strontium isotope analysis (please let me know if I am incorrect on this point). A fascinating study.
    Stg021 - not necessarily an outlier but a non-local based on the strontium isotope analysis. Believe this sample plots closer to Orkney & Norway.

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  19. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by firemonkey View Post
    What is the best one?
    Admitted it's an interpretation but I guess the Longobards, as other early Germanic tribes, must have been mostly in the Nordic LN-BA corner of this graphic of Davidski/ Generalissimo:





    http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2019/0...ronze-age.html
    Last edited by Finn; 05-23-2019 at 02:50 PM.

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