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Thread: Ancient Euro like mix found in KOL, Burusho, Brahmins & Kammas

  1. #1
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    Post Ancient Euro like mix found in KOL, Burusho, Brahmins & Kammas

    Kit BURUSHO_HGDP00417 & Kit EG7561327 Kol 306 Share segments on chr 6 from 166063617 169280650 that is widely shared in Europe among East Europe, Slavic, Germany etc....

    These 2 kits match bunch of South Indian Kammas, IN_Brahmin_WestBengal::BR2_2, *PK_GUJAR::G-72, PATHAN_HGDP00222 sample

    This looks like a really old EHG segment found in Indian tribal people & Humza valley & many Indian castes. It may be ancient signal present among Brahmins & early Indian people.

    Proto-North-Dravidian must have been extensive in north India before the advent of the Aryans & might be related to these Euro signals.

    There are major similiarities between Finn & Dravidian languages
    Grammatical Similarities
    There are some grammatical similarities between Finnish and South Indian languages. Both do not use prepositions at all. An example makes it clear. Note that Malayalam has its own alphabet, but we use Roman script here so that you can read it.

    Finnish Malayalam Means

    Helsingissä Helsinkiyil in Helsinki
    Helsinkiin Helsinkiyilekku to Helsinki
    Helsingistä Helsinkiyilninnu from Helsinki
    Turkuunko? Turku-yileko? to Turku?
    kirjan hinta Pusthaka-thinte Vila the price of the book
    The use of suffixes is not the only similarity. In the case of noun + noun constructions, the qualifying name comes first in both languages forming a single compound word. Eg: In Finnish, brick(tiili)+ house(talo) = tiilitalo. In Malayalam brick(Ishtika) + house(Veedu) = Ishtikaveedu. On the other hand, in the case of noun+name construction, where noun indicates relationship, both languages follow the same pattern. Eg: Matti setä = uncle Matti. In Malayalam it would have been Matti maman = uncle Matti.

    Some striking words
    Some words are strikingly similar and have the same or close-to meaning. This can be quite accidental, until someone can prove otherwise. Also 'sata' (=100) in Finnish means the same in almost all Indian languages! But the source of this is obviously Sanskrit satam.

    Malayalam means Finnish means

    amma mother äiti mother
    emä maa mother country
    emä laiva mother ship
    nalu four neljä four
    vatti basket vati basin
    puu flower puu tree
    muusari foundryman muurari* mason
    piri screw thread piiri circle
    eei (colloq.) 'no' ei no
    tuuli blow in wind tuuli wind
    kudi(kudil) house koti house
    kayyi, kai hand, arm käsi hand, arm
    kol (kolluka) die, kill kuolla die, pass away
    ulla, olla(thu) be, exist ole to be

    * Can be pure coincidence? They did not use bricks at the
    time of supposed contacts. Muurari comes from "muuri" which means "wall".
    Whereas in Malayalam Musari comes from "Musa"(=mould). Though not exactly
    same meaning, the formation of the final word follows a similar pattern.



    -------
    Y: H-M69 -> H-M82 -> SK1225 -> H-Z5888 -> H-Z5890 -> H-CTS8144 [CTS8144/PF1741/M5498] -> Z34531 (H1a1a4b3b1a8~)
    mtDNA: U2a1a
    extras (309.1C) (315.1C) 11368C 16093A

    G25 Ancients Dist 0.99 Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA3:S8728.E1.L1 65.2 Saidu_Sharif_IA_o:S7722.E1.L1 17.8 Udegram_IA:I1985 7.8 Jordanian:S_Jordanian-1 4.4 Barikot_IA:I6545 2.2 Scotland_N:I26602 Narva_Lithuania: Donkalnis6

    mtDNA mutation 309.1C 315.1C 522.1A 522.2C G8572A G8860A T11368C T16093a T16154C C16519T
    C195T

  2. #2
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    Proto-North-Dravidian must have been extensive in north India before the advent of the Aryans. Both the kits have Brahmin mix showing up on the mixed mode oracle.



    Burusho Kit Num: MH9690741
    Threshold of components set to 1.000
    Threshold of method set to 0.25%
    Personal data has been read. 20 approximations mode.

    MDLP K16 2xOracle and OracleX4

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 Indian 52.41
    2 Caucasian 17.84
    3 Steppe 13.71
    4 SouthEastAsian 7.29
    5 Siberian 3.22
    6 Amerindian 1.63
    7 Arctic 1.45
    8 Australian 1.22
    9 NorthEastEuropean 1.01


    Finished reading population data. 517 populations found.
    16 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Burusho_Pakistan @ 3.625585
    2 Jatt_Muslim @ 6.460187
    3 Brahmin_India @ 7.351140
    4 Kshatriya_India @ 8.547029
    5 Kashmiri_Pandit_Kashmir @ 8.550486
    6 Vaish_Odisha @ 8.794892
    7 Brahmin_Uttar_Pradesh @ 8.869957
    8 Meena_Rajasthan @ 10.194931
    9 Jatt_Pahari @ 10.403708
    10 Gujjar_Punjab @ 10.689427
    11 Sindhi_Sindh @ 10.802147
    12 Pathan_Punjab @ 11.324206
    13 Meghawal_Gujarat @ 11.695163
    14 GujaratiA_Gujarat @ 12.750973
    15 Jatt_Haryana @ 12.810308
    16 Brahmin_Tamil_Nadu @ 13.408206
    17 Srivastava_India @ 14.840552
    18 Thakur_Maharashtra @ 15.772856
    19 Lambadi_Karnataka @ 16.113653
    20 Muslim_India @ 16.338438

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Burusho_Pakistan +50% Burusho_Pakistan @ 3.625585


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% Burusho_Pakistan +25% Burusho_Pakistan +25% Burusho_Pakistan @ 3.625585


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    1 Burusho_Pakistan + Burusho_Pakistan + Burusho_Pakistan + Burusho_Pakistan @ 3.625585
    2 Brahmin_Uttar_Pradesh + Burusho_Pakistan + Burusho_Pakistan + Burusho_Pakistan @ 3.761439
    3 Burusho_Pakistan + Burusho_Pakistan + Burusho_Pakistan + Sindhi_Sindh @ 3.798440
    4 Burusho_Pakistan + Burusho_Pakistan + Burusho_Pakistan + Jatt_Muslim @ 3.923562
    5 Burusho_Pakistan + Burusho_Pakistan + Burusho_Pakistan + Vaish_Odisha @ 3.935947
    6 Burusho_Pakistan + Burusho_Pakistan + Burusho_Pakistan + Kshatriya_India @ 3.995440
    7 Burusho_Pakistan + Burusho_Pakistan + Burusho_Pakistan + Meena_Rajasthan @ 4.018753
    8 Burusho_Pakistan + Burusho_Pakistan + Burusho_Pakistan + Meghawal_Gujarat @ 4.043198
    9 Burusho_Pakistan + Burusho_Pakistan + Burusho_Pakistan + GujaratiA_Gujarat @ 4.048769
    10 Brahmin_India + Burusho_Pakistan + Burusho_Pakistan + Burusho_Pakistan @ 4.093073
    11 Burusho_Pakistan + Burusho_Pakistan + Burusho_Pakistan + Gujjar_Punjab @ 4.260029
    12 Brahmin_Uttar_Pradesh + Burusho_Pakistan + Burusho_Pakistan + Kashmiri_Pandit_Kashmir @ 4.328863
    13 Brahmin_Tamil_Nadu + Burusho_Pakistan + Burusho_Pakistan + Burusho_Pakistan @ 4.374129
    14 Burusho_Pakistan + Burusho_Pakistan + Burusho_Pakistan + Kashmiri_Pandit_Kashmir @ 4.426141
    15 Burusho_Pakistan + Burusho_Pakistan + Kashmiri_Pandit_Kashmir + Vaish_Odisha @ 4.429268
    16 Brahmin_Uttar_Pradesh + Burusho_Pakistan + Burusho_Pakistan + Jatt_Muslim @ 4.430809
    17 Burusho_Pakistan + Burusho_Pakistan + Jatt_Haryana + Kurmi_Nepal @ 4.451987
    18 Burusho_Pakistan + Burusho_Pakistan + Burusho_Pakistan + GujaratiB_Gujarat @ 4.485204
    19 Burusho_Pakistan + Burusho_Pakistan + Jatt_Muslim + Vaish_Odisha @ 4.488961
    20 Burusho_Pakistan + Burusho_Pakistan + Burusho_Pakistan + Srivastava_India @ 4.489003

    vs


    Kit Num: EG7561327
    Threshold of components set to 1.000
    Threshold of method set to 0.25%
    Personal data has been read. 20 approximations mode.
    Gedmatch.Com
    MDLP K16 Modern 4-Ancestors Oracle
    This program is based on 4-Ancestors Oracle Version 0.96 by Alexandr Burnashev.
    Questions about results should be sent to him at: Alexandr.Burnashev@gmail.com
    Original concept proposed by Sergey Kozlov.
    Many thanks to Alexandr for helping us get this web version developed.

    MDLP K16 2xOracle and OracleX4

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 Indian 72.06
    2 SouthEastAsian 12.08
    3 Caucasian 4.45
    4 Oceanic 3.20
    5 NorthEastEuropean 2.56
    6 Amerindian 1.53
    7 Australian 1.43


    Finished reading population data. 517 populations found.
    16 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Punjabi_Lahore @ 5.347408
    2 Chamar_Uttar_Pradesh @ 5.713376
    3 North_Kannadi_Kerala @ 6.089779
    4 Sakilli_Tamil_Nadu @ 6.120189
    5 Dusadh_Uttar_Pradesh @ 6.597950
    6 Madiga_Telangana @ 6.869118
    7 Hakkipikki_Karnataka @ 6.983377
    8 GujaratiD_Gujarat @ 7.027769
    9 Kol_Uttar_Pradesh @ 7.198279
    10 Bhil_Maharashtra @ 7.524518
    11 GujaratiC_Gujarat @ 7.617838
    12 Scheduled_Caste_Uttar_Pradesh @ 7.756070
    13 Bengali_Bangladesh_BEB @ 7.929504
    14 Piramalai_Kallars_Tamil_Nadu @ 8.313609
    15 Kamsali_Andra_Pradesh @ 8.655267
    16 Vysya_India @ 9.260184
    17 Lodi_Pakistan @ 9.569569
    18 Gupta_Rajput @ 9.713555
    19 Scheduled_Caste_Tamil_Nadu @ 9.988977
    20 Kurumba_Karnataka @ 10.006843

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% GujaratiD_Gujarat +50% North_Kannadi_Kerala @ 3.757782


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% GujaratiD_Gujarat +25% GujaratiD_Gujarat +25% Santhal_Jharkhand @ 3.519823


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++
    1 GujaratiD_Gujarat + GujaratiD_Gujarat + GujaratiD_Gujarat + Santhal_Jharkhand @ 3.519823
    2 GujaratiD_Gujarat + GujaratiD_Gujarat + Punjabi_Lahore + Satnami_Uttar_Pradesh @ 3.524871
    3 Gond_Maharashtra + GujaratiD_Gujarat + GujaratiD_Gujarat + GujaratiD_Gujarat @ 3.544524
    4 GujaratiD_Gujarat + GujaratiD_Gujarat + GujaratiD_Gujarat + Satnami_Uttar_Pradesh @ 3.573356
    5 Asur_Jharkhand + GujaratiD_Gujarat + GujaratiD_Gujarat + GujaratiD_Gujarat @ 3.583991
    6 Gond_Maharashtra + GujaratiD_Gujarat + GujaratiD_Gujarat + Punjabi_Lahore @ 3.628689
    7 Chamar_Uttar_Pradesh + GujaratiD_Gujarat + GujaratiD_Gujarat + Satnami_Uttar_Pradesh @ 3.677107
    8 Asur_Jharkhand + GujaratiC_Gujarat + GujaratiD_Gujarat + GujaratiD_Gujarat @ 3.680888
    9 GujaratiD_Gujarat + GujaratiD_Gujarat + GujaratiD_Gujarat + Sahariya_Madhya_Pradesh @ 3.703825
    10 GujaratiD_Gujarat + GujaratiD_Gujarat + Brahmin_Madhya_Pradesh + Punjabi_Lahore @ 3.704809
    11 GujaratiC_Gujarat + GujaratiD_Gujarat + GujaratiD_Gujarat + Santhal_Jharkhand @ 3.707726
    12 Chamar_Uttar_Pradesh + Dusadh_Uttar_Pradesh + GujaratiD_Gujarat + Punjabi_Lahore @ 3.730570
    13 GujaratiD_Gujarat + GujaratiD_Gujarat + North_Kannadi_Kerala + Satnami_Uttar_Pradesh @ 3.740551
    14 Asur_Jharkhand + GujaratiD_Gujarat + GujaratiD_Gujarat + Punjabi_Lahore @ 3.742164
    15 Chamar_Uttar_Pradesh + GujaratiD_Gujarat + GujaratiD_Gujarat + North_Kannadi_Kerala @ 3.746557
    16 GujaratiD_Gujarat + GujaratiD_Gujarat + GujaratiD_Gujarat + Brahmin_Madhya_Pradesh @ 3.749933
    17 GujaratiD_Gujarat + GujaratiD_Gujarat + North_Kannadi_Kerala + North_Kannadi_Kerala @ 3.757782
    18 Chamar_Uttar_Pradesh + GujaratiD_Gujarat + North_Kannadi_Kerala + Punjabi_Lahore @ 3.775793
    19 GujaratiD_Gujarat + GujaratiD_Gujarat + Punjabi_Lahore + Santhal_Jharkhand @ 3.786794
    20 GujaratiD_Gujarat + GujaratiD_Gujarat + Nihali_Madhya_Pradesh + Punjabi_Lahore @ 3.791888
    Y: H-M69 -> H-M82 -> SK1225 -> H-Z5888 -> H-Z5890 -> H-CTS8144 [CTS8144/PF1741/M5498] -> Z34531 (H1a1a4b3b1a8~)
    mtDNA: U2a1a
    extras (309.1C) (315.1C) 11368C 16093A

    G25 Ancients Dist 0.99 Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA3:S8728.E1.L1 65.2 Saidu_Sharif_IA_o:S7722.E1.L1 17.8 Udegram_IA:I1985 7.8 Jordanian:S_Jordanian-1 4.4 Barikot_IA:I6545 2.2 Scotland_N:I26602 Narva_Lithuania: Donkalnis6

    mtDNA mutation 309.1C 315.1C 522.1A 522.2C G8572A G8860A T11368C T16093a T16154C C16519T
    C195T

  3. #3
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    This might prove that there was a Brahmin-Kol mix population with ancient Saami like population found among early Dravidian people

    EG7561327 (Kol 306) sample is matching Brahmin/Pathan/Mine/Saami samples at high values on Genesis
    Kol evo_32 -> 19.7 - 4 Gen
    PATHAN_HGDP00222 -> 14.4 - 5 Gen
    Kol 328 -> 12.1 - 5.1
    IN_Khatri::K-10 -> 11.9 - 5.1 Gen
    IN_Brahmin_Gujarat::GBR-21 -> 10.5 - 5.2 Gen
    Suresh Tipirneni -> 9.9 - 5.3 Gen
    *PARSI PK 21 -> 9.4 - 5.2 Gen
    IN_Brahmin_Gujarat::GBR-14 -> 8.7 - 6.7 Gen
    *SINDHI 07 -> 8.4 - 6.9 Gen
    IN_Brahmin_Tamil_Iyer::IR-1-15 -> 8.0 - 7 Gen
    PATHAN_HGDP00264 -> 8.2 - 7.2 Gen
    M482183 (Saami 1)- 8.1 - 7.1 Gen

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by tipirneni View Post
    This might prove that there was a Brahmin-Kol mix population with ancient Saami like population found among early Dravidian people

    EG7561327 (Kol 306) sample is matching Brahmin/Pathan/Mine/Saami samples at high values on Genesis
    Kol evo_32 -> 19.7 - 4 Gen
    PATHAN_HGDP00222 -> 14.4 - 5 Gen
    Kol 328 -> 12.1 - 5.1
    IN_Khatri::K-10 -> 11.9 - 5.1 Gen
    IN_Brahmin_Gujarat::GBR-21 -> 10.5 - 5.2 Gen
    Suresh Tipirneni -> 9.9 - 5.3 Gen
    *PARSI PK 21 -> 9.4 - 5.2 Gen
    IN_Brahmin_Gujarat::GBR-14 -> 8.7 - 6.7 Gen
    *SINDHI 07 -> 8.4 - 6.9 Gen
    IN_Brahmin_Tamil_Iyer::IR-1-15 -> 8.0 - 7 Gen
    PATHAN_HGDP00264 -> 8.2 - 7.2 Gen
    M482183 (Saami 1)- 8.1 - 7.1 Gen
    Can you explain this? How can there be a brahmin mix type of population amongst ancient dravidians? Where would the gene flow come from?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by 26284729292 View Post
    Can you explain this? How can there be a brahmin mix type of population amongst ancient dravidians? Where would the gene flow come from?
    it might be the early H1 farmers from Iran moving & mixing with Kelteminar 6000-3000BC into IVC periphery. Later during MLBA when the new wave comes in these already settled people mix with the early Brahmins especially early river settled Brahmins. After fall of IVC during later bronze due to climate change these people mixed with O2 & F1 tribals to establish Copper Hoard culture in Hindi heartland which is a cut down version of IVC cities.
    Y: H-M69 -> H-M82 -> SK1225 -> H-Z5888 -> H-Z5890 -> H-CTS8144 [CTS8144/PF1741/M5498] -> Z34531 (H1a1a4b3b1a8~)
    mtDNA: U2a1a
    extras (309.1C) (315.1C) 11368C 16093A

    G25 Ancients Dist 0.99 Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA3:S8728.E1.L1 65.2 Saidu_Sharif_IA_o:S7722.E1.L1 17.8 Udegram_IA:I1985 7.8 Jordanian:S_Jordanian-1 4.4 Barikot_IA:I6545 2.2 Scotland_N:I26602 Narva_Lithuania: Donkalnis6

    mtDNA mutation 309.1C 315.1C 522.1A 522.2C G8572A G8860A T11368C T16093a T16154C C16519T
    C195T

  6. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to tipirneni For This Useful Post:

     26284729292 (02-12-2019),  agent_lime (02-12-2019)

  7. #6
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    Recent study by Gyaneshwer Chaubey Anurag Kadian Saroj Bala Vadlamudi Raghavendra Rao both IE & Dravidian Caste population have highest segment matches to KOL population. Their ANE is also higher than other tribals.



    From study https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ar...l.pone.0127655

    Based on information from Ramayana, we have considered these tribal populations to be ancient inhabitants of India, surviving from the times of the Stone Age [19,23]. If we assume that their genome carry the signature of peopling of ancient time, the assessment of their genomes and comparison with modern populations would test the scenario of continuity vs. discontinuity of prehistoric heritage. In case of continuity, we should see largely similar genome composition among contemporary caste and tribal populations of modern India. On the other hand, in case of discontinuity, these tribal populations should show a unique genome composition or they should emerge as an outliers in our cluster based analysis. Our extended analysis on Fst, PCA and ADMIXTURE showed similar genome composition of these tribal populations, carrying both the ANE and ASI components (Fig 1a–1c, Table 1 and S1 Fig). We also calculated the genetic diversity of these populations with their neighbours (Table 2). The diversity of Kol, Bhil and Gond didn’t show any significant deviation from their neighbouring extent Indo-European, Dravidian and Munda speaking groups.

    The shared drift statistics analysis (f3) suggested that most of the derived alleles of Bhil, Kol and Gond are overwhelmingly shared with Indian caste and tribal populations (S2 Fig).

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------

    On adding KOL to some Neolithic, Tamil, BA, MLBA proxy populations doing nmonte clearly shows the cline among Indian castes


    "distance%=1.3427"

    Suresh_T

    Kol,59.25
    Gonur2_BA,15.25
    Pulliyar,14.25
    Brahui,9
    Abdul_Hosein_N,2
    Gonur1_BA,0.25

    "distance%=1.5652"

    Midi Patel

    Kol,80.5
    Brahui,7.75
    Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2,7.75
    Pulliyar,4

    "distance%=0.6034"

    Kerala_Nair-Kart

    Kol,42
    Brahui,27
    Pulliyar,24
    Darra_i_kur,5
    Ganj_Dareh_N,1.5
    Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2,0.5

    "distance%=0.9494"

    Gujarati:NA20849

    Kol,70
    Gonur2_BA,10.5
    Pulliyar,9
    Darra_i_kur,4
    Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2,4
    Wezmeh_Cave_N,1.5
    WHG,0.75
    Ganj_Dareh_N,0.25

    "distance%=1.3391"

    Gujarati:NA21089

    Kol,60.25
    Pulliyar,18.5
    Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2,15
    Brahui,5.25
    West_Siberia_N_low_res,1

    "distance%=0.3426"

    Custom-AGUser_Rahul77

    Kol,43
    Saka_Tian_Shan,15.5
    Brahui,12.25
    Gonur2_BA,9.75
    Gonur1_BA,7.25
    Darra_i_kur,3.75
    Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2,1.75
    Dali_EBA,1.5
    Gonur1_BA_o,1.5
    Nomad_Medieval,1.25
    WHG,1.25
    Geoksiur_Eneolithic,1
    Pulliyar,0.25

    "distance%=1.2785"

    AP khatri

    Kol,40.75
    Brahui,28.5
    Gonur1_BA,16.25
    Dashti_Kozy_BA,4.75
    Sarazm_Eneolithic,3.5
    West_Siberia_N,3.5
    Nomad_IA,1
    Nomad_Medieval,0.75
    Dzharkutan2_BA,0.5
    WHG,0.5

    "distance%=1.3068"

    Custom-AGUser_Jatt1

    Kol,46
    Sarazm_Eneolithic,18
    Dashti_Kozy_BA,13
    Brahui,12.5
    Saka_Kazakh_Steppe,4.75
    Gonur1_BA_o,4
    Bustan_BA,0.75
    Nomad_His,0.5
    Nui_Nap_all,0.5

    "distance%=0.8519"

    Punjabi_Ramgarhia

    Kol,63
    Brahui,8.5
    Nomad_Medieval,5.5
    Dashti_Kozy_BA,5.25
    Sarazm_Eneolithic,5.25
    Nomad_IA,5
    Gonur1_BA,4.5
    West_Siberia_N,1.75
    Nomad_His,1
    Saka_Tian_Shan,0.25

    "distance%=1.188"

    Custom-AGUser_frostassassin

    Kol,73.5
    Saka_Kazakh_Steppe,7.5
    Pulliyar,6.5
    Dashti_Kozy_BA,5.75
    West_Siberia_N,3
    Oakaie1_all,1.75
    WHG,1.25
    Gadaba,0.75

    "distance%=0.7598"

    Custom-AGUser_aaronbee2010

    Kol,39.25
    Brahui,12
    Dzharkutan1_BA,12
    Turk_Medieval,12
    Dashti_Kozy_BA,9
    Sappali_Tepe_BA,8.5
    West_Siberia_N_low_res,4
    Geoksiur_Eneolithic,2.25
    WHG,1

    "distance%=1.462"

    Brahmin_Khas_Nepal-poi_uncle_maternal

    Kol,29.75
    Gadaba,17.75
    Brahui,14.25
    Geoksiur_Eneolithic,12.75
    Nomad_Medieval,7.25
    Darra_i_kur,6.5
    Pulliyar,3.75
    Sappali_Tepe_BA,2.75
    Dashti_Kozy_BA,2.5
    West_Siberia_N_low_res,1.75
    WHG,1

    "distance%=0.8898"

    Iyer:IR-1-17

    Kol,76.5
    Brahui,13.5
    Gonur2_BA,4.75
    West_Siberia_N_low_res,1.5
    Gonur1_BA,1.25
    Vucedol,1.25
    Nomad_Medieval,0.75
    Pulliyar,0.5
    Y: H-M69 -> H-M82 -> SK1225 -> H-Z5888 -> H-Z5890 -> H-CTS8144 [CTS8144/PF1741/M5498] -> Z34531 (H1a1a4b3b1a8~)
    mtDNA: U2a1a
    extras (309.1C) (315.1C) 11368C 16093A

    G25 Ancients Dist 0.99 Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA3:S8728.E1.L1 65.2 Saidu_Sharif_IA_o:S7722.E1.L1 17.8 Udegram_IA:I1985 7.8 Jordanian:S_Jordanian-1 4.4 Barikot_IA:I6545 2.2 Scotland_N:I26602 Narva_Lithuania: Donkalnis6

    mtDNA mutation 309.1C 315.1C 522.1A 522.2C G8572A G8860A T11368C T16093a T16154C C16519T
    C195T

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  9. #7
    Registered Users
    Posts
    717
    Sex
    Location
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    "distance%=0.9285"

    Censored

    Kol,70.75
    Pulliyar,17
    Gonur1_BA,5.25
    Saka_Tian_Shan,3.25
    Geoksiur_Eneolithic,2
    Dzharkutan2_BA,1.75

    "distance%=0.4406"

    Zaid

    Pulliyar,22.5
    Kol,18
    Brahui,16.5
    Gonur2_BA,10.25
    Gonur1_BA,9
    Gonur1_BA_o,6.5
    Darra_i_kur,5.5
    Nomad_IA,4.5
    Saka_Kazakh_Steppe,2.5
    Nomad_His,2.25
    Oakaie1_all,1.5
    West_Siberia_N,1

    "distance%=0.8952"

    Reza

    Kol,47.75
    Pulliyar,17
    Brahui,15.25
    Gadaba,10.25
    Oakaie1_all,4.75
    Nomad_Medieval,2.25
    West_Siberia_N,1.5
    Darra_i_kur,1
    WHG,0.25

    "distance%=0.4821"

    Khana

    Kol,28
    Gonur1_BA,22.75
    Brahui,17.5
    Gonur2_BA,7
    Sappali_Tepe_BA,5.25
    Pulliyar,5
    Nomad_Medieval,3.75
    Saka_Kazakh_Steppe,2.5
    Dashti_Kozy_BA,2
    Geoksiur_Eneolithic,2
    Gonur1_BA_o,1.5
    West_Siberia_N_low_res,1.25
    WHG,0.75
    Saka_Tian_Shan,0.5
    Vucedol_no_steppe,0.25

    "distance%=0.6161"

    Custom-AGUser_Bolnat

    Brahui,57.5
    Kol,34.75
    West_Siberia_N,4
    Turk_Medieval,3.5
    Nomad_IA,0.25

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  11. #8
    Registered Users
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    900
    Sex
    Ethnicity
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    Y-DNA
    I2 (I-S17250)
    mtDNA
    T2a1b1a

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    Quote Originally Posted by tipirneni View Post
    Kit BURUSHO_HGDP00417 & Kit EG7561327 Kol 306 Share segments on chr 6 from 166063617 169280650 that is widely shared in Europe among East Europe, Slavic, Germany etc....

    These 2 kits match bunch of South Indian Kammas, IN_Brahmin_WestBengal::BR2_2, *PK_GUJAR::G-72, PATHAN_HGDP00222 sample

    This looks like a really old EHG segment found in Indian tribal people & Humza valley & many Indian castes. It may be ancient signal present among Brahmins & early Indian people.

    Proto-North-Dravidian must have been extensive in north India before the advent of the Aryans & might be related to these Euro signals.

    There are major similiarities between Finn & Dravidian languages
    Grammatical Similarities
    There are some grammatical similarities between Finnish and South Indian languages. Both do not use prepositions at all. An example makes it clear. Note that Malayalam has its own alphabet, but we use Roman script here so that you can read it.

    Finnish Malayalam Means

    Helsingissä Helsinkiyil in Helsinki
    Helsinkiin Helsinkiyilekku to Helsinki
    Helsingistä Helsinkiyilninnu from Helsinki
    Turkuunko? Turku-yileko? to Turku?
    kirjan hinta Pusthaka-thinte Vila the price of the book
    The use of suffixes is not the only similarity. In the case of noun + noun constructions, the qualifying name comes first in both languages forming a single compound word. Eg: In Finnish, brick(tiili)+ house(talo) = tiilitalo. In Malayalam brick(Ishtika) + house(Veedu) = Ishtikaveedu. On the other hand, in the case of noun+name construction, where noun indicates relationship, both languages follow the same pattern. Eg: Matti setä = uncle Matti. In Malayalam it would have been Matti maman = uncle Matti.

    Some striking words
    Some words are strikingly similar and have the same or close-to meaning. This can be quite accidental, until someone can prove otherwise. Also 'sata' (=100) in Finnish means the same in almost all Indian languages! But the source of this is obviously Sanskrit satam.

    Malayalam means Finnish means

    amma mother äiti mother
    emä maa mother country
    emä laiva mother ship
    nalu four neljä four
    vatti basket vati basin
    puu flower puu tree
    muusari foundryman muurari* mason
    piri screw thread piiri circle
    eei (colloq.) 'no' ei no
    tuuli blow in wind tuuli wind
    kudi(kudil) house koti house
    kayyi, kai hand, arm käsi hand, arm
    kol (kolluka) die, kill kuolla die, pass away
    ulla, olla(thu) be, exist ole to be

    * Can be pure coincidence? They did not use bricks at the
    time of supposed contacts. Muurari comes from "muuri" which means "wall".
    Whereas in Malayalam Musari comes from "Musa"(=mould). Though not exactly
    same meaning, the formation of the final word follows a similar pattern.



    -------
    Finnish is not an Indo-European language. Probably just coincidence
    Known ancestry: 1/2 Romanian Northeast + 1/4 Romanian Southeast + 1/4 Romanian Bukovina Ukraine
    23andme: 53.6% Greek & Balkan (4% Broadly South Euro), 35.7% East Euro, 0.3% Ashkenazi Jewish, 6.5% Broadly Euro
    MyHeritage: 92.2% Balkan, 5.8% English, 1.1% Eskimo, 0.9% Japanese
    FTDNA: 45% Southeast Euro, 45% East Euro, 4% British Isles, 3% West Middle East, 2% NE Asia
    Global 25: Anatolia_N 50.2%, EHG 32.6%, CHG 11.2%, WHG 3.8%, East Asian 2.2%
    Hidden Content

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  13. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorkymon View Post
    Finnish is not an Indo-European language. Probably just coincidence
    There is a lot of work done here. Back in 1861 there was analysis of Scythian affinities of Dravidian due to Pallavan & Saka artifacts in Andhra/TN. There were theories of Uralo-Dravidian, Finno-Basque, Hungaro-Sumerian, Elamo-Dravidian etc... But the association is not perfect so none of them stand real well. However it looks like these FinnoUgric elements are also closer to older IE forms found in Baltics & EE. Maybe it is a continent wide movement during Early Bronze covering Iran/CA/Steppe/Baltics/Pontic etc.. However into India these influences are much less compared to other places..



    Quotes from another paper.

    Finno-Ugric (FU)

    It has been proven beyond doubt that FU has lot of borrowings from IA (or
    more specifically Vedic) as well as Iranian. The words borrowed by FU are
    not PIE; they are IIr (Indo-Iranian) in character but some are uniquely
    IA as well. It has borrowed 'sata' (a satem word) and hence, the
    borrowings happened after the centum/satem split. Also, FU has borrowed
    the term 'dasyu' (in Vogulian 'tas' meaning stranger). That Vogulian has
    's' shows that it was not borrowed from Iranian. Also, the term 'dahyu'
    meant 'country or people' in Iranian. It was RV that 'dasyu' was used to
    refer to the non-Vedic (foreign) people. Hence, it shows that FU borrowed
    terms from IA (and not just Indo-Iranian). FU has borrowed heavily from
    IA and IIr (and even Iranian). But reverse borrowing by IA appears to be
    non-existent. Some scholars like Klejn claim: "Aryans knew the names of
    the river Volga (ved. Rasa, cf. Mord. Ravo) and the Ural mountains (ved.
    Rep, cf. Greek Ripeian ridge). They possessed the notion on a miraculous
    multifeet deer-like animal (Ved. ?arabha) ressembling the multifeet elk
    of the Ugric myths (its Ugric name is ?orp) (Bongard-Levin and Grantovsky
    1974)"[v]. Thus, this evidence of a close contact between the IA and FU
    is taken to mean that Indo-Aryans arrived from the Urals (where the FU
    existed). According to the AIT proponents, as the FU were never near
    Indian subcontinent, it must be the Indo-Aryans who wandered near FU
    before they settled in the subcontinent. This 'evidence' is analysed
    later.

    cldwell.gif
    https://www.jstor.org/stable/592159?...o_tab_contents
    Y: H-M69 -> H-M82 -> SK1225 -> H-Z5888 -> H-Z5890 -> H-CTS8144 [CTS8144/PF1741/M5498] -> Z34531 (H1a1a4b3b1a8~)
    mtDNA: U2a1a
    extras (309.1C) (315.1C) 11368C 16093A

    G25 Ancients Dist 0.99 Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA3:S8728.E1.L1 65.2 Saidu_Sharif_IA_o:S7722.E1.L1 17.8 Udegram_IA:I1985 7.8 Jordanian:S_Jordanian-1 4.4 Barikot_IA:I6545 2.2 Scotland_N:I26602 Narva_Lithuania: Donkalnis6

    mtDNA mutation 309.1C 315.1C 522.1A 522.2C G8572A G8860A T11368C T16093a T16154C C16519T
    C195T

  14. #10
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    Afghanistan Jammu and Kashmir United States of America Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by tipirneni View Post
    Recent study by Gyaneshwer Chaubey Anurag Kadian Saroj Bala Vadlamudi Raghavendra Rao both IE & Dravidian Caste population have highest segment matches to KOL population. Their ANE is also higher than other tribals.



    From study https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ar...l.pone.0127655

    Based on information from Ramayana, we have considered these tribal populations to be ancient inhabitants of India, surviving from the times of the Stone Age [19,23]. If we assume that their genome carry the signature of peopling of ancient time, the assessment of their genomes and comparison with modern populations would test the scenario of continuity vs. discontinuity of prehistoric heritage. In case of continuity, we should see largely similar genome composition among contemporary caste and tribal populations of modern India. On the other hand, in case of discontinuity, these tribal populations should show a unique genome composition or they should emerge as an outliers in our cluster based analysis. Our extended analysis on Fst, PCA and ADMIXTURE showed similar genome composition of these tribal populations, carrying both the ANE and ASI components (Fig 1a–1c, Table 1 and S1 Fig). We also calculated the genetic diversity of these populations with their neighbours (Table 2). The diversity of Kol, Bhil and Gond didn’t show any significant deviation from their neighbouring extent Indo-European, Dravidian and Munda speaking groups.

    The shared drift statistics analysis (f3) suggested that most of the derived alleles of Bhil, Kol and Gond are overwhelmingly shared with Indian caste and tribal populations (S2 Fig).

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------

    On adding KOL to some Neolithic, Tamil, BA, MLBA proxy populations doing nmonte clearly shows the cline among Indian castes


    "distance%=1.3427"

    Suresh_T

    Kol,59.25
    Gonur2_BA,15.25
    Pulliyar,14.25
    Brahui,9
    Abdul_Hosein_N,2
    Gonur1_BA,0.25

    "distance%=1.5652"

    Midi Patel

    Kol,80.5
    Brahui,7.75
    Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2,7.75
    Pulliyar,4

    "distance%=0.6034"

    Kerala_Nair-Kart

    Kol,42
    Brahui,27
    Pulliyar,24
    Darra_i_kur,5
    Ganj_Dareh_N,1.5
    Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2,0.5

    "distance%=0.9494"

    Gujarati:NA20849

    Kol,70
    Gonur2_BA,10.5
    Pulliyar,9
    Darra_i_kur,4
    Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2,4
    Wezmeh_Cave_N,1.5
    WHG,0.75
    Ganj_Dareh_N,0.25

    "distance%=1.3391"

    Gujarati:NA21089

    Kol,60.25
    Pulliyar,18.5
    Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2,15
    Brahui,5.25
    West_Siberia_N_low_res,1

    "distance%=0.3426"

    Custom-AGUser_Rahul77

    Kol,43
    Saka_Tian_Shan,15.5
    Brahui,12.25
    Gonur2_BA,9.75
    Gonur1_BA,7.25
    Darra_i_kur,3.75
    Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2,1.75
    Dali_EBA,1.5
    Gonur1_BA_o,1.5
    Nomad_Medieval,1.25
    WHG,1.25
    Geoksiur_Eneolithic,1
    Pulliyar,0.25

    "distance%=1.2785"

    AP khatri

    Kol,40.75
    Brahui,28.5
    Gonur1_BA,16.25
    Dashti_Kozy_BA,4.75
    Sarazm_Eneolithic,3.5
    West_Siberia_N,3.5
    Nomad_IA,1
    Nomad_Medieval,0.75
    Dzharkutan2_BA,0.5
    WHG,0.5

    "distance%=1.3068"

    Custom-AGUser_Jatt1

    Kol,46
    Sarazm_Eneolithic,18
    Dashti_Kozy_BA,13
    Brahui,12.5
    Saka_Kazakh_Steppe,4.75
    Gonur1_BA_o,4
    Bustan_BA,0.75
    Nomad_His,0.5
    Nui_Nap_all,0.5

    "distance%=0.8519"

    Punjabi_Ramgarhia

    Kol,63
    Brahui,8.5
    Nomad_Medieval,5.5
    Dashti_Kozy_BA,5.25
    Sarazm_Eneolithic,5.25
    Nomad_IA,5
    Gonur1_BA,4.5
    West_Siberia_N,1.75
    Nomad_His,1
    Saka_Tian_Shan,0.25

    "distance%=1.188"

    Custom-AGUser_frostassassin

    Kol,73.5
    Saka_Kazakh_Steppe,7.5
    Pulliyar,6.5
    Dashti_Kozy_BA,5.75
    West_Siberia_N,3
    Oakaie1_all,1.75
    WHG,1.25
    Gadaba,0.75

    "distance%=0.7598"

    Custom-AGUser_aaronbee2010

    Kol,39.25
    Brahui,12
    Dzharkutan1_BA,12
    Turk_Medieval,12
    Dashti_Kozy_BA,9
    Sappali_Tepe_BA,8.5
    West_Siberia_N_low_res,4
    Geoksiur_Eneolithic,2.25
    WHG,1

    "distance%=1.462"

    Brahmin_Khas_Nepal-poi_uncle_maternal

    Kol,29.75
    Gadaba,17.75
    Brahui,14.25
    Geoksiur_Eneolithic,12.75
    Nomad_Medieval,7.25
    Darra_i_kur,6.5
    Pulliyar,3.75
    Sappali_Tepe_BA,2.75
    Dashti_Kozy_BA,2.5
    West_Siberia_N_low_res,1.75
    WHG,1

    "distance%=0.8898"

    Iyer:IR-1-17

    Kol,76.5
    Brahui,13.5
    Gonur2_BA,4.75
    West_Siberia_N_low_res,1.5
    Gonur1_BA,1.25
    Vucedol,1.25
    Nomad_Medieval,0.75
    Pulliyar,0.5
    If you used mostly ancients it would be far better, lot of these components are just cannibalizing each other and some are not even relevant at all. Using the IA samples in conjunction with ancient would be better. Also avoid using Gonur2 and Darra I Khur, Gonur2 is noisy and Darra I Khur is a low resolution sample.

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