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Thread: "100% Sure R1a Originated in India - N.Rai" - Paper coming soon

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ral View Post
    Some time ago I made prediction that subclades of R1a would be found in India of the Harappan time.
    This prediction was based on the conclusions of some experts that some of the Indian branches of R1a are not very similar to European ones + I read that in India of the Early Harrapan time and even pre-Harappan time there was some groups of non-autochthonous population, probably from the north. Probably the flow of genes from central Asia to India exists a very long time.
    As a side effect of this paper we should expect to have a much better phylogeny of R1a, which will make the overall picture more clearer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kale View Post
    It should be no surprise to find basal R1 lineages in India, completely outside the scope of the Indo-European topic. The Indus_Periphery samples looked like ASE + Central Asian Neolithics, who themselves had 10-20% ancestry in the ANE/Botai/WSHG neighborhood of things, and all of whom could likely have carried R1 in large numbers.
    Most part of Eurasia where ancient samples have been found have never had any geographical barriers per se for restricting gene flow, hence the autosomal line of evidence should always be secondary to uniparental evidence which is more robust.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noman View Post
    I hope someone releases paper on Y DNA R2 too.
    I had heard they will be publishing data on other Y-lines from India.
    That may be a separate paper or data included within this paper not completely sure. Though it will be limited to the diversity found locally i guess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aaronbee2010 View Post
    That would be nice.

    From what I've seen so far, most R2 in India comes under R-L295, which appears to be a Proto-Dravidian group which came from the Zagros Mountains in my opinion.

    I can't find any scientific literature dedicated exclusively to R2 though
    Yes R2 was often treated as the step-child of P with higher focus on R1b, R1a and Q.
    In fact initially many R2 were listed P!

    I think early R2 were Indo-Iranians if not Indo-European. Even in the upcoming Italy paper I would not be surprised if R2-M479 shows up.
    As to why in Dravidians, my perspective: "R2-M124 may have entered India a bit earlier than R1a-Z93, and thus a slightly greater presence in Dravidians and in tribes."
    You can see different perspectives here.
    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post110143

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    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    Yes R2 was often treated as the step-child of P with higher focus on R1b, R1a and Q.
    In fact initially many R2 were listed P!

    I think early R2 were Indo-Iranians if not Indo-European. Even in the upcoming Italy paper I would not be surprised if R2-M479 shows up.
    As to why in Dravidians, my perspective: "R2-M124 may have entered India a bit earlier than R1a-Z93, and thus a slightly greater presence in Dravidians and in tribes."
    You can see different perspectives here.
    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post110143
    Do you know how the ancient people in India to be buried before IVC?

    There is supine type ins IVC like the burial of WSHG, not Iran farmers. As I said before, there is a high possibility of R1a (xQ1a) to be found in IVC. I think it leads to the fact that so many altai words are similar to tamil's.

    I also think the 2nd R1a-z93 brought the most important concept, which Andronovo people didn't have, but okunevo and malta:

    Indra (sunhead or creator) => sun's ray => serpent, fire cult.
    Last edited by johen; 02-13-2019 at 06:44 PM.

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    The most basal branch of R1a pops up in Assyrians and some Middle Eastern people alongside R1b-Z2103, and likely reached the region from the steppes along the Caspian together with R1b. I've never heard or seen of the basal branches of R1a in India, let alone 15,000 years ago. Bring it on, I call BS.
    YDNA: R1b-BY50830 Stepney, London, UK George Wood b. 1782 English <-> Bavarian cluster
    m gf YDNA: ?? Gurr, James ~1740, Smarden, Kent, England.
    m gm YDNA: R1b-P311+ Beech, John Richard b. 1780, Lewes, England
    m ggf YDNA R1b-U106 Thomas, Edward b 1854, Sittingbourne, Kent
    p ggf YDNA: R1b-Z17901. Gould, John Somerset England 1800s.
    p ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Scott, William Hamilton Ireland(?) 1800s

    other:
    Turner: R-U152
    Welch: early 1800s E-M84 Kent, England.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johen View Post
    Do you know how the ancient people in India to be buried before IVC?

    There is supine type ins IVC like the burial of WSHG, not Iran farmers. As I said before, there is a high possibility of R1a (xQ1a) to be found in IVC. I think it leads to the fact that so many altai words are similar to tamil's.
    Interesting about Altai and Tamil.

    Yes I had noticed the supine position from the Baikal to Black Sea in another thread.
    "The DD culture has been studied in approximately 200 sites in Ukraine and Byelorussia, including settlements and large collective cemeteries of the Mariupol-type (M-t).1 The main feature of M-t cemeteries is inhumation burial in the supine position. This burial rite differs from most local Mesolithic burial traditions and is characteristic of the ‘Euro-Siberian’ zone of extended burials, which are found from Lake Baikal and the forest and forest-steppe zones of the East European Plain to the northern part of Central Europe and Scandinavia"

    The Indus burials are specifically north-south, with the head to the north. This was also seen in the Buddhist Mongol khan burial. I have see the Yam reason given for this north-south orientation.

    Another thought is that Indus plains rivers in general run north-south so the plots were often north-south too. On the other hand in Ganga plains the plots are east-west.
    Last edited by parasar; 02-13-2019 at 06:58 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by homosapien View Post
    Watch from 5:00 minutes mark to 8 minutes mark for Niraj Rai's take.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVXQcgcTwz0
    They're clearly talking about modern Y-DNA, based on this folks argued for donkeys R1b originated in Western Europe and now only donkeys believe that : )

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    Quote Originally Posted by ADW_1981 View Post
    The most basal branch of R1a pops up in Assyrians and some Middle Eastern people alongside R1b-Z2103, and likely reached the region from the steppes along the Caspian together with R1b. I've never heard or seen of the basal branches of R1a in India, let alone 15,000 years ago. Bring it on, I call BS.
    ERR445337 (India_Hindu_Punjabi)
    R1axM459

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  18. #20
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    My popcorn is buttered and ready

    It would be exciting regardless to have the data. I feel the R1a "battle" (at this moment based on all the aDNA) is very lopsided in favor of the non-India origin... everything points towards Europe and/or NorthAsia, but not South Asia. But, if 15,000 R1a is in India, it would mean we might have to reexamine a few things. Personally, I'm hoping for R1a (particularly L657) point to Indian origin so that the IndoAryan origin gets a bit of a paradigm shift. Otherwise, it's getting a bit boring out there with all the archeological and genetic evidence so far.

    Still, though, none of the early IronAge (>800 BCE) from the supposed Vedic Aryan sites in the Swat Valley turn up any R1a. We see a ton of Es(and Hs, Js, even R2 and Q) but no R1as.

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