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Thread: R1b in North Africans

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravetto-Danubian View Post
    I wasn't getting high and mighty. I said its comlex simply because it is . I don't know where Majkop came from , but the stimulus for it is definitely from South of Caucasus: that's where the demand for metal ores came from. How this translates genetically could be broken down to 3 scenarios :

    1) Majkop was simply a native, EHG type people.
    2) they were admixed with southerners -
    (A) gradually over time, including exogamy etc
    (b) suddenly , 4500 BC
    3) they were largely all southerners

    We already know it's likely to be 3a. But genomes are coming, and it'll tell us the story. I think some people suspect the answer already .
    Do you mean 2a or 3? I don't see 3a.

  2. #62
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    stupid me. 2a.
    Apparently they already have some Genomes from Khvalynsk culture and are getting from Majkop.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADW_1981 View Post
    Effectively destroying your argument completely.
    Sorry but I can't see how that supposedly destroys my argument completely...

    Quote Originally Posted by ADW_1981
    Now now, don't get all high and mighty. We know a few truths.

    1) Farming was brought to Europe and the genome of farmers is pretty distinct and contains ancestry not found previously in the European HG. Let's just genericize it a bit and call it Early Euro Farmer, even though we know some HG ancestry was absorbed along the way.

    2) The origins of this farming wave appear to be the fertile crescent. We could strongly argue somewhere in this crescent as the origin of EEF.

    So what is the origin of Maykop? Everything I read implies it was intrusive from the south, which would make it in and around the Fertile Crescent.
    Neolithic farmers likely came to Europe from Western (or Western & Central) Anatolia. By contrast those later intruders such as Maykop came from areas of the Middle East located much farther to the east.

    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    I think you'll see R1a turn up in Yamnaya on the northern route around the north and east side of the Carpathians, along with R1b-U106. The situation with R1b-L51 and Yamnaya is similar to the situation with R1a and Yamnaya, but I think we will find R1b-L51 (perhaps in the form of R1b-P312) on the up-the-Danube route of Yamnaya, around the south side of the Carpathians. Of course, R1b-U106 is an L51+ group, but I think it rode with Corded Ware onto the North European Plain.

    Time will tell. Hopefully we'll get lots more ancient y-dna soon.
    Here some interesting pie charts of R1b subclades as % of all R1b:

    http://leherensuge.blogspot.com/2010...e-of-west.html

    [Typo: in the maps M529, also known as L21, is wrongly written as M259. My apologies]
    http://leherensuge.blogspot.com/2010...e-of-west.html





    Though I'm not sure how accurate these maps are, because they are quite old, from 2010.
    Last edited by Tomenable; 08-23-2015 at 01:48 AM.

  4. #64
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    DF27 is the most common subclade among Basque-speakers (71,5% of rural Basques have DF27):



    And the same data here:



    But Basques can't be treated as a source for West European R1b (L51), because they only have DF27.

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  6. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Il Papà View Post
    There were not only one beaker tested, there was also an other beaker than the U152 guy who is supposed to be DF27+ but it is not totally certain that he is DF27.
    This is the first I've heard of the potential DF27 beaker. Is there a link to a site or paper making this claim?

    Never mind, I read the successive posts following that one, explaining the error.
    Last edited by Gray Fox; 08-29-2015 at 06:29 PM.
     
    Y-DNA : R1b-P312>DF27>Z196>L176.2>Z262>SRY2627*

    mtDNA : J1c8

    Lactase Persistence: rs4988235 - AA rs182549 - TT

    EEF 49.22068981
    WHG 35.89409732
    ANE 14.88521287


    Eurogenes K7:
    WHG 61.67%
    ENF 19.35%
    ANE 15.21%


    Ysearch - ky8wb

    ftdna - 151463

    23andMe - M936999

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