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Thread: Is this line a contender of Indo-European, Paleo Balkan? R1a > CTS1211 > Y35 > YP4278

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    Is this line a contender of Indo-European, Paleo Balkan? R1a > CTS1211 > Y35 > YP4278

    What's the story behind this line?

    Apparently its greatest frequency is in Herzegovina at 4-5%, and around the Balkan countries at about 1% of all R1a? With a seeming diminishing distribution elsewhere.

    Did it arrive with the Slavs in the 6th century to the Balkans? Or was it present in the Balkans and spread with them?


    formed 4200 ybp, TMRCA 1850 ybp



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    Does anyone have more information?

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    Here is YFull's R-YP4278 haplotree. It includes a Czech, a Finn, and a Hungarian.

    FTDNA's block tree for R-YP4278 has:

    YP4278* : 1 Serbia, 1 Czech Rep., 1 Finland
    YP4441 : 3 Russia, 1 Unknown
    YP4706 : 1 Hungary, 1 Ukraine
    BY30743 : 2 Serbia, 1 Bosnia-Herzegovina, 1 Unknown

    IMHO, it is not native to the Balkans but rather traveled south to there (e.g., from the Carpathians). The question is whether this migration occurred before or during the Slavic expansion.
    Last edited by lgmayka; 02-24-2019 at 12:05 AM.

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    Looking at it's age and modern distribution, it probably expanded out of Eastern Europe around Late Antiquity or the Early Middle Ages.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ownstyler View Post
    Looking at it's age and modern distribution, it probably expanded out of Eastern Europe around Late Antiquity or the Early Middle Ages.
    I would think the opposite.

    Its distribution supports a native origin because its greatest frequency is in western Balkans, followed by eastern Balkans, and then followed by Eastern Europe. Its TMRCA however supports a non-native origin which coincides with late antiquity/early middle ages migrations.

    However, most lineages suffered bottlenecks during the migration period and I do not think a TMRCA around that period is definitive of non-Balkan origins. It does in my opinion support a movement with the migrations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lgmayka View Post
    Here is YFull's R-YP4278 haplotree. It includes a Czech, a Finn, and a Hungarian.

    FTDNA's block tree for R-YP4278 has:

    YP4278* : 1 Serbia, 1 Czech Rep., 1 Finland
    YP4441 : 3 Russia, 1 Unknown
    YP4706 : 1 Hungary, 1 Ukraine
    BY30743 : 2 Serbia, 1 Bosnia-Herzegovina, 1 Unknown

    IMHO, it is not native to the Balkans but rather traveled south to there (e.g., from the Carpathians). The question is whether this migration occurred before or during the Slavic expansion.
    Any guess to what brought it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by trdbr1234 View Post
    I would think the opposite.

    Its distribution supports a native origin because its greatest frequency is in western Balkans, followed by eastern Balkans, and then followed by Eastern Europe. Its TMRCA however supports a non-native origin which coincides with late antiquity/early middle ages migrations.

    However, most lineages suffered bottlenecks during the migration period and I do not think a TMRCA around that period is definitive of non-Balkan origins. It does in my opinion support a movement with the migrations.
    By distribution I meant where there are more branches, or where there is more diversity. Frequency is not that relevant. As lgmayka explained, out of the 4 parallel lines currently on YFull, only one is from the Balkans, while the three others are from Eastern Europe.

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    BUMP...........

  13. #9
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    Well, maybe it came to the Balkans with the Turkic Bulgars?

    In another thread you mentioned ancestry from Bulgaria IIRC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    Well, maybe it came to the Balkans with the Turkic Bulgars?

    In another thread you mentioned ancestry from Bulgaria IIRC.
    That would be interesting. Is there anything that supports that theory?

    No, I don't have any ancestry from Bulgaria. I come from a region of Albania that is bilingual in Bulgarian(North Macedonian to be exact) and Albanian.

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