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Thread: I1-L205

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by spruithean View Post
    Agreed, however the Longobards brought more than just Longobards (Goths, Gepids, etc) with them as they moved into Italy.



    I agree that Longobard could be more likely given the circumstances, however I've always been a bit wary of surnames in determining origins this far back as surnames can change so quickly or the result of undocumented adoption, NPEs etc
    Agreed - the Amorim paper with the Collegno and Szolad cemetery analysis showed a mixture of migrants from the North and also folks picked up along the way. And in both locations, only a single example of I1 in each cemetery among a lot of others. I'd also be wary of the surname association to these times for the same reasons.

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     Bollox79 (07-12-2019)

  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonikW View Post
    I agree you have to look at the combined evidence, so location and name together are about the best we could hope for when they tally with a haplogroup. I'd say Lombard should be the working hypothesis for Stolfi until any other evidence arrives.
    Thanks, I am guessing ordering a better kit from FTDNA might help. In the meantime, I am going to upload the raw data I have now to a few groups on FTDNA. I'm not sure if there's anything else that might provide more evidence - you all would know that more than me. I'd really love to get as close to proving it (if it is Longobard) as possible as the thought is a bit exciting to me for some reason!
    Last edited by Stolfi; 07-12-2019 at 11:43 PM.

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     JonikW (07-12-2019)

  5. #23
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    I may try to get some other Italian males in my area in Connecticut to get their Y-DNA done. We almost all came from the same area in Italy. My brother-in-law came from a little further up in Italy and his haplo is R-U152 and another guy from my area in Italy's haplo is I-M223 (he's literally from the same area in Avigliano as my relatives). That info probably doesn't help much, but maybe there are a few other's here that I can get to test - the more, the better!

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     JonikW (07-12-2019)

  7. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by deadly77 View Post
    Agreed - the Amorim paper with the Collegno and Szolad cemetery analysis showed a mixture of migrants from the North and also folks picked up along the way. And in both locations, only a single example of I1 in each cemetery among a lot of others. I'd also be wary of the surname association to these times for the same reasons.
    You make good points, but we should bear in mind that although tribes bore names such as the Lombards they were still heterogeneous to greater or lesser extents. But their members were still "Lombards" etc.
    Living DNA's former Cautious mode:
    Wales-related ancestry: 86.8%
    Cornwall: 8%
    North England-related ancestry: 5.2%
    Y line: Peak District, England. Big Y match: Scania, Sweden; TMRCA 1,100 ybp (YFull);
    mtDNA: traces to Glamorgan, Wales
    Mother's Y: traces to Llanvair Discoed, Wales

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     deadly77 (07-13-2019)

  9. #25
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    I personally am hoping for some migration era samples from Frankish or Western Germanic sites... i.e. House of Wettin and now Bourbon (by extension possibly Capetian and Robertians etc - Dr. Iain said he had received a positive response from the head research of the Bourbon sample, but had yet to make further progress I think) being associated with Frankish tribes... I want to see if any DF98 shows up in Frankish remains... and of course I hope for Haplogroup I guys also ;-)... anyone know of any papers coming out anytime soon on Western Germanic sites or Frankish sites? I mean there are a ton of them to be studied, but the aDNA scene moves so slowly via papers and such...!! Waiting is killing me hah. Last year was good for Germanic sites... this year so far not so much... also looking forward to any late BA into Iron Age - we need those too!

    Cheers!
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  10. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonikW View Post
    You make good points, but we should bear in mind that although tribes bore names such as the Lombards they were still heterogeneous to greater or lesser extents. But their members were still "Lombards" etc.
    Of course - I've always said that population groups are heterogenous, but it's good to emphasize the point. I feel it's also likely that the people within the group at the time wouldn't be able to distinguish either after a few generations of incorporation.

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     JonikW (07-13-2019)

  12. #27
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    I'm going to ask a very simplistic question, so please bear with me as I'm sure it's obvious how little I know about haplogroups. But with regards to my haplogroup of I-L205.1, is that definitely a Germanic haplogroup? If so and we know that my father was pretty much 100% Southern European/Italian by his DNA and his father and my 2nd great grandfather all lived in Avigliano (everything Southern European and below on the ancestry composition is from him – my mother was tested and the DNA was phased against hers – everything above Southern European was matched to her DNA). I know for certain that my surname is a Germanic Lombard name and that there were settlements of Lombards in the area where my ancestors lived. I understand that there could be adoptions and so forth, but let's hypothetically say there weren't any adoptions. So, my simplistic question is – what would I need to find out to prove or disprove if my ancestor’s were Lombard’s and is it even possible? Just as an added note, I'm thinking it's likely that the Anatolian and Levantine DNA is from my father's mother who was from Calabria (I have more researching to do on that). I also attached a screenshot of where in Italy my DNA is from - which seems rather accurate according to my paper trail.

    DNA.JPG JSDNA1.JPG
    Last edited by Stolfi; 07-13-2019 at 03:09 AM.

  13. #28
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    It’s hard to say as these haplogroups are old, likely before Italy was even called Italy. Regionally it could be the case, but it’s likely part of a bigger picture yet to be uncovered.

    If you are getting your haplogroup from 23 and me, know that it’s very high level. You should consider a FTDNA Y test if you are seriously interested in this. And yes, the west Asian is from the Italian, although it’s likely from both your calabrese and basilicatian. Or whatever the hell people from Basilicata are called lol.
    distance%=4.6465"
    Barcin_N,47.2
    Yamnaya_Samara,41.4
    WHG,10.6
    Ethiopia_4500BP,0.8


    E-V13 => E-PH1246 => E-BY14160
    Antonio Reale born circa 1710, Ciminą (RC) Italy

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     Stolfi (07-13-2019)

  15. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by digital_noise View Post
    It’s hard to say as these haplogroups are old, likely before Italy was even called Italy. Regionally it could be the case, but it’s likely part of a bigger picture yet to be uncovered.

    If you are getting your haplogroup from 23 and me, know that it’s very high level. You should consider a FTDNA Y test if you are seriously interested in this. And yes, the west Asian is from the Italian, although it’s likely from both your calabrese and basilicatian. Or whatever the hell people from Basilicata are called lol.
    Ha! Your post made me actually laugh out loud! I don't know what they are called either! I'm going to get the Y-DNA test and I will have to patiently wait and hope for some answers, but it will probably lead to more questions!

  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stolfi View Post
    Ha! Your post made me actually laugh out loud! I don't know what they are called either! I'm going to get the Y-DNA test and I will have to patiently wait and hope for some answers, but it will probably lead to more questions!
    Take it from me: go Big-Y or don’t bother. The lesser Y tests won’t give you what you are looking for.
    distance%=4.6465"
    Barcin_N,47.2
    Yamnaya_Samara,41.4
    WHG,10.6
    Ethiopia_4500BP,0.8


    E-V13 => E-PH1246 => E-BY14160
    Antonio Reale born circa 1710, Ciminą (RC) Italy

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     Stolfi (07-13-2019)

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