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Thread: Palestinian Christian y-DNA - 89 Sample 23andme Survey

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by hartaisarlag View Post
    You know what'd be a dream come true? 89 Palestinian Christian kits uploaded to Gedmatch
    There's already like 30 samples om gedmatch. I created a pca one time for them and they mostly cluster between Samaritans and Lebanese Christians. I thin there was a couple south of Samaritans and towards Palestinian Muslims but I don't know their background.

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  3. #12
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    FGC4745 is also found in Italy.
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  5. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iseid0441 View Post
    There's already like 30 samples om gedmatch. I created a pca one time for them and they mostly cluster between Samaritans and Lebanese Christians. I thin there was a couple south of Samaritans and towards Palestinian Muslims but I don't know their background.
    Is that PCA posted?

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  7. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iseid0441
    To get the real distribution, you have to survey different towns. For example, the majority of people of beit sahour are J1 but they're mostly descendents of a couple families that thrived. If you survey beit sahour only as a reference of all Palestinian Christians, then J1 will be an obvious winner. That's what your survey did here.
    Well it's interesting you say that because my immediate family (that I personally know) over there are from Bethlehem and Beit Jala, not Beit Sahour. But many of these "DNA Relatives" are 3rd, 4th and 5th cousins, and like you say even that degree of relatedness is probably just an artefact of small population size.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iseid0441
    Like you said, Palestinian Christians are bottle necked. The majority of Palestinian Christians seem to be related. My parents are showing up as 3rd/4th cousins. I think it's just the same dna being recycled. They're not related on paper. So this phenomenon really skews ydna distribution.
    But the surprising thing is in spite of this the y-dna is very diverse and almost evenly distributed. It's almost more like an mtdna distribution, compared to how a single clade like P58 dominates the Arabian Penninsula, or how R-L51 dominates western Europe.
    Last edited by K33; 02-28-2019 at 04:48 AM.

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  9. #15
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    I find 2 Palestinians under R1b-Z209 a bit surprising. Can you offer us any more details or if they come from the same founder?
    YDNA: R1b-Z220 (A7066+) (1800's Stepney, London(Bethnal Green), UK George Wood b. 1782
    maternal-grandfather YDNA: prob. I1 Gurr, George 1843, Feversham, Kent, England.
    maternal-grandmother YDNA: R1b-P311+ Beech, John Richard b. 1780, Lewes, England
    maternal-ggrandfather YDNA R1b-U106 Thomas, Edward b 1854, Sittingbourne, Kent
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Gould, John Somerset England 1800s.
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Scott, William Hamilton mdka Ireland(?) < 1800s

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  11. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADW_1981 View Post
    I find 2 Palestinians under R1b-Z209 a bit surprising. Can you offer us any more details or if they come from the same founder?
    Yeah, I just caught this earlier today too and made a note to revisit them.

    Both of these guys are Hondurans with substantial European and Amerind ancestry in addition to MENA. They don't share the same surname-- however both are owners of prominent Bethlehem surnames and so that's how they both made the cut. While it's not impossible these lineages ended up there in the Roman/Crusade period, the most likely scenario seems these two individual cases represented non-paternity events.

    I had 89 samples but only 78 distinct surnames-- 7 surnames accounted for a total of 18 combined sample entrants. But I didn't double-count samples with matching surnames and matching y-dna. One of those R-Z214 guys was among 4 owners of a surname who made my list as individual samples, since none of them shared the same exact y-dna sequence. The other 3 were J-CTS5368, J-M267, and J-P58. Now, you can say if you throw out the R-Z214 kid, the other 3 are all J1a and the discrepancy can be chalked up to differences in 23andme chip or call accuracy.

    But one surname with two samples included a G-L30 and a J-P58. That discrepancy cannot be an artifact of chip version. Besides, when there is one surname that has multiple y-calls, how am I supposed to discriminate against including one y-call at the expense of the other... that's why I just threw them all in; in the end the vast majority of the dataset is still composed of distinct surnames. But yeah the R-Z209 guys are probably not legit.

    The U152 guy is almost certainly one of those elusive "Roman" or "Crusader" patrilineages though. He's 99% MENA/1% SSA, traces all four ancestors back to Israel and still lives there now. The R-Z2122 guy is also full blooded Palestinian (96% MENA/2% Euro/1% SSA), this lineage is downstream of Z-93 so presumably it's of Iranian provenance.

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  13. #17
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    Nice work !

    I wonder if there is any Q-M378 among these 89 samples.
    Check out my Hidden Content
    My Y-DNA: Q-M242 -> Q-L232 -> Q-L275 -> Q-M378 -> Q-Y2016 -> Q-L245 -> Q-FGC1904 -> Q-Y2209 -> Q-Y2225 -> Q-Y2197 -> Q-Y2750 -> Q-YP1004 -> Q-YP3924;
    My mtDNA: K1a1b1a;

    My dad's mtDNA: K2a2a;

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  15. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by K33 View Post
    Yeah, I just caught this earlier today too and made a note to revisit them.

    Both of these guys are Hondurans with substantial European and Amerind ancestry in addition to MENA. They don't share the same surname-- however both are owners of prominent Bethlehem surnames and so that's how they both made the cut. While it's not impossible these lineages ended up there in the Roman/Crusade period, the most likely scenario seems these two individual cases represented non-paternity events.

    I had 89 samples but only 78 distinct surnames-- 7 surnames accounted for a total of 18 combined sample entrants. But I didn't double-count samples with matching surnames and matching y-dna. One of those R-Z214 guys was among 4 owners of a surname who made my list as individual samples, since none of them shared the same exact y-dna sequence. The other 3 were J-CTS5368, J-M267, and J-P58. Now, you can say if you throw out the R-Z214 kid, the other 3 are all J1a and the discrepancy can be chalked up to differences in 23andme chip or call accuracy.

    But one surname with two samples included a G-L30 and a J-P58. That discrepancy cannot be an artifact of chip version. Besides, when there is one surname that has multiple y-calls, how am I supposed to discriminate against including one y-call at the expense of the other... that's why I just threw them all in; in the end the vast majority of the dataset is still composed of distinct surnames. But yeah the R-Z209 guys are probably not legit.

    The U152 guy is almost certainly one of those elusive "Roman" or "Crusader" patrilineages though. He's 99% MENA/1% SSA, traces all four ancestors back to Israel and still lives there now. The R-Z2122 guy is also full blooded Palestinian (96% MENA/2% Euro/1% SSA), this lineage is downstream of Z-93 so presumably it's of Iranian provenance.
    What is interesting though is that Myers et al from 2011 found 2 samples of P312+(xU152) among their Palestinian sample. Z214 happens to be an Iberian, and lesser extent French subclade of Z209, so barring a NPE, the Crusades would be a possibility as DF27+ would have been quite common in the region the knights came from.
    YDNA: R1b-Z220 (A7066+) (1800's Stepney, London(Bethnal Green), UK George Wood b. 1782
    maternal-grandfather YDNA: prob. I1 Gurr, George 1843, Feversham, Kent, England.
    maternal-grandmother YDNA: R1b-P311+ Beech, John Richard b. 1780, Lewes, England
    maternal-ggrandfather YDNA R1b-U106 Thomas, Edward b 1854, Sittingbourne, Kent
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Gould, John Somerset England 1800s.
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Scott, William Hamilton mdka Ireland(?) < 1800s

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  17. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by hartaisarlag View Post
    Is that PCA posted?
    Never posted because I'm not best at making PCAs using Past3. It was only experimental for me.

    I modeled using K13. See ones below, at the time there was only like 10 to 15 samples available.
    K13-1.png
    K13-2.png

    I tried K15 for my parents using this site http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/K15.htm, I'm hoping to expand it to more people when I have time.
    K15.png

    If someone wants to make a better PCA, I can provide you samples. I was hoping I can show differences between each town because from what I saw there's quite the variation within each town.

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  19. #20
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    I'm not sure if you checked FTDNA. This is what I have. Again I don't know their background but their names could be telling.
    FTDNA List.png

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