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Thread: Palestinian Christian y-DNA - 89 Sample 23andme Survey

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iseid0441 View Post
    Never posted because I'm not best at making PCAs using Past3. It was only experimental for me.

    I modeled using K13. See ones below, at the time there was only like 10 to 15 samples available.
    Attachment 29101
    Attachment 29102

    I tried K15 for my parents using this site http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/K15.htm, I'm hoping to expand it to more people when I have time.
    Attachment 29103

    If someone wants to make a better PCA, I can provide you samples. I was hoping I can show differences between each town because from what I saw there's quite the variation within each town.
    You can just ask Ph2ter to add you to a proper plot, instead of using that jpg which is not nearly as accurate
    YDNA - E-Y31991>PF4428>Y134097>Y168273 Domingos Rodrigues, b. circa 1690 Hidden Content , Viana do Castelo, Portugal
    mtDNA - H20. Maria Josefa de Almeida, b. circa 1750 Hidden Content , Porto, Portugal

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    Global25 PCA West Eurasia dataset Hidden Content

    [1] "distance%=1.5411"
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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erikl86 View Post
    Nice work !

    I wonder if there is any Q-M378 among these 89 samples.
    I just figured out you can download a data sheet for all Relatives, and for those with sharing you can see and sort the haplogroups in excel. Probably would have been easier than clicking on each one thru the online browser

    When I sort the spreadsheet by y-dna, the only thing under Q is a Honduran with a Spanish surname and Q-M3... Amerindian lineage.

    One guy is positive for R2>R-L295. He is 99.7% MENA with an Arab surname. I excluded him in my original sampling since I couldn't confirm his surname is Palestinian, but now I just found the surname on this site as a Bethlehemite family: http://www.palestine-family.net/inde...155&did=2854-1

    @Iseid: that image you posted showed a guy with a Hispanic surname and R-Z209, most likely a Honduran or Chilean with a non-Palestinian paternal grandfather. It's possible he's also R-Z214 but FTDNA didn't get that downstream call. This would reinforce the idea that the Z214 is coming from the New World/conquistador side.

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  5. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iseid0441 View Post
    I'm not sure if you checked FTDNA. This is what I have. Again I don't know their background but their names could be telling.
    Attachment 29104
    E-CTS1727 is noteworthy; it’s just upstream of L791.

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  7. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by K33 View Post

    I can add more detail re: sample selection methodology in an ensuing post but for now, here is the data:




    Here is the data consolidated into higher-level clades:

    Great work! I did the same with my Lebanese matches and it really is helpful to see these haplogroups for your own community (because personally I find some studies are difficult to trust). Comparing to a previous study on Palestinian from 2011 (Fernandes):
    Palestinian Christians- 32% E1b1b, 11% G2a, and 9% J1
    Palestinian Muslims- 38% J1, 19% E1b1b, and 6% T

    I've previously heard that Palestinian Christians have a good amount of G, but your results are even more surprising. You certainly get higher J1 than the what the study found (I would've expected the J1 and J2 percentages to be switched)... I didn't find mention of G1 or J2 percentages in the study.
    78.1% Lebanese (Lebanon) + 21.9% Kosovar (Kosovo) @ 3.3

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  9. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingofPhoenicia001 View Post
    Great work! I did the same with my Lebanese matches and it really is helpful to see these haplogroups for your own community (because personally I find some studies are difficult to trust). Comparing to a previous study on Palestinian from 2011 (Fernandes):
    Palestinian Christians- 32% E1b1b, 11% G2a, and 9% J1
    Palestinian Muslims- 38% J1, 19% E1b1b, and 6% T

    I've previously heard that Palestinian Christians have a good amount of G, but your results are even more surprising. You certainly get higher J1 than the what the study found (I would've expected the J1 and J2 percentages to be switched)... I didn't find mention of G1 or J2 percentages in the study.
    I requested access to the Fernandes paper - does anyone have it? Curious if they specify which locales they sampled from.

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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by hartaisarlag View Post
    I requested access to the Fernandes paper - does anyone have it? Curious if they specify which locales they sampled from.
    I got those percentages from Wikipedia which cited that study. Couldn't gain access to their supplemental data to see it for myself, unfortunately.
    78.1% Lebanese (Lebanon) + 21.9% Kosovar (Kosovo) @ 3.3

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  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingofPhoenicia001 View Post
    Great work! I did the same with my Lebanese matches and it really is helpful to see these haplogroups for your own community (because personally I find some studies are difficult to trust). Comparing to a previous study on Palestinian from 2011 (Fernandes):
    Palestinian Christians- 32% E1b1b, 11% G2a, and 9% J1
    Palestinian Muslims- 38% J1, 19% E1b1b, and 6% T

    I've previously heard that Palestinian Christians have a good amount of G, but your results are even more surprising. You certainly get higher J1 than the what the study found (I would've expected the J1 and J2 percentages to be switched)... I didn't find mention of G1 or J2 percentages in the study.
    so explain, was all the noted muslims as per above, in the roman period either Jews, christians or pagans and where they in paestine or where they arrivals after the roman period?.....apart from E , the other markers origins are north of the zargos mountains ...............could they be "babylonians or persians "


    My Path = ( K-M9+, TL-P326+, T-M184+, L490+, M70+, PF5664+, L131+, L446+, CTS933+, CTS3767+, CTS8862+, Z19945+ )

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  15. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by vettor View Post
    so explain, was all the noted muslims as per above, in the roman period either Jews, christians or pagans and where they in paestine or where they arrivals after the roman period?.....apart from E , the other markers origins are north of the zargos mountains ...............could they be "babylonians or persians "
    J1 and J2 have been attested in/adjacent to Palestine as early as the Early Bronze Age, and T's been found there during the Chalcolithic.

    One assumes the majority of Palestinian Muslims' ancestry traces back to autochthonous Christians, whose ancestors were either Jewish, Samaritan, or pagan. How overwhelming that majority was or wasn't is unresolved.

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  17. #29
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    ^^To be clear though, odds are J1-L862 and J2b1-M205 (which were found side by side both in Ayn Ghazal and Sidon) have been present in the Southern Levant at least since the Late Chalcolithic. IMO the samples from Peqi'in are unlikely to be representative of the entire Chalcolithic Levant, all the more so in the Southern Levant (which is also something Harney et al. repeatedly hinted at).

    As for the origins of Palestinian Muslims, the vast majority of their ancestry is probably derived from Palæstina Prima's Christian population. These Christians were overwhelmingly descended from the early Jewish followers of Christianity, some were also of Samaritan descent however I'd argue that Samaritan ancestry amongst Palestinian Muslims is going to be more discernible than amongst the Christians whose Samaritan ancestry is bound to be more ancient (especially because the Samaritan and to a lesser extent Jewish revolts were the main event of the centuries following the Jewish-Roman wars, it could be argued that the Samaritans experienced genocide under the Byzantines). Canaanite polytheism basically ceased being an important feature in the Southern Levant's religious landscape under the Hasmoneans, who forcibly converted the Jews' pagan Canaanite neighbours to Judaism and destroyed their temples (as in Ashdod, where the temple of Dagon was burned to the ground by Jonathan circa 150 BCE, Ashdod subsequently became a Jewish city), the same was done to the Samaritans (yes, the Jews destroyed the Samaritan temple on Har Gerizim). The impact of the Hasmoneans' Judaisation campaigns is underestimated, all the more so if we're talking about the genetic impact they had (in my view, this was the beginning of Judaism in a form recognisable to us).
    Last edited by Agamemnon; 03-02-2019 at 12:39 AM.
    ᾽Άλλο δέ τοι ἐρέω, σὺ δ᾽ ἐνὶ φρεσὶ βάλλεο σῇσιν:
    κρύβδην, μηδ᾽ ἀναφανδά, φίλην ἐς πατρίδα γαῖαν
    νῆα κατισχέμεναι: ἐπεὶ οὐκέτι πιστὰ γυναιξίν.


    -Αγαμέμνων; H Οδύσσεια, Ραψωδία λ

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  19. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by hartaisarlag View Post
    J1 and J2 have been attested in/adjacent to Palestine as early as the Early Bronze Age, and T's been found there during the Chalcolithic.

    One assumes the majority of Palestinian Muslims' ancestry traces back to autochthonous Christians, whose ancestors were either Jewish, Samaritan, or pagan. How overwhelming that majority was or wasn't is unresolved.
    Yes , i know T arrived from black sea anatolian lands and departed the levant prior to 4000BC are per last years paper.

    my question was,
    did they migrate there or where they already there.....because a separation of haplogroups was made using religious categories....which I do not know why


    My Path = ( K-M9+, TL-P326+, T-M184+, L490+, M70+, PF5664+, L131+, L446+, CTS933+, CTS3767+, CTS8862+, Z19945+ )

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