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Thread: My Big-Y700 results from FTDNA, Northern Greek.

  1. #21
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    So, after reading various articles, could it be said, with current information that's available, that R-A12332 is of a Proto-Balkan (Thracian/Greek) and/or Hittite and/or Phrygian origin?

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by dosas View Post
    So, after reading various articles, could it be said, with current information that's available, that R-A12332 is of a Proto-Balkan (Thracian/Greek) and/or Hittite and/or Phrygian origin?
    I would link it more with Proto-Armenians and Anatolians. There are various clades of A12332 on the Armenian FTDNA project, from what I can see most carriers are actually Armenians from eastern Anatolia(seems pretty diverse there as well) which is interesting and maybe could suggest a Hittite link but it could still be due to Proto-Armenians. I also saw an Armenian from Bulgaria who was A12332>A12337. Though considering that Hellenic usually is linked to Proto-Armenian it could be possible that some A12332 is from them, Phrygians also could've carried it going by the fact that linguistically they seemed to be closest to Hellenic. As for the Thracians, imo they mainly belonged to R-CTS9219 clades such as BY611 and Y5586.
    Ftdna MyOrigins 2.0: 100% SE European

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    Ydna: J1>P58>YSC234>ZS241

    Maternal Ydna: E-V13>CTS5856*

    Mtdna: T1a1l

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  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelmendasi View Post
    As for the Thracians, imo they mainly belonged to R-CTS9219 clades such as BY611 and Y5586.
    Which R-BY611 clade do you think is Thracian? After the latest NGS tests, we can see that R-Z2705 looks Western Balkan. R-Y30192 has a TMRCA of ~2100 ybp between an Italian and the Spanish. The third and final BY611 branch is in Sardinia. Perhaps you meant BY250 instead of BY611?

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  6. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by rafc View Post
    I'm not a specialist in this branch, but as far as I see all Balkan samples under BY611 belong to PH970, for which Yfull gives a TMRCA of 1500 years ago. That seems to better fit a Slavic expansion. If BY611 spread Paleo-Balkanic languages wouldn't there be more basal BY611 spread out over the Balkans?
    I really don't think so rafc. Besides the points Kelmendasi and Ownstyler made, R-Z2705 (PH970) is really widespread among Albanians, and among Albanians it peaks precisely in areas with limited to inexistent typical Slavic Y lineages, such as the Mat region for example.

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    R1b-L584, just because it occurs in Armenians, doesn't mean every Greek L584 is Armenian, by this logic, E-V13 FTDNA project has more Englishmen than Greeks, who don't participate in projects so much.

    ever heard of Graeco-Armenian ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by dosas View Post
    So, after reading various articles, could it be said, with current information that's available, that R-A12332 is of a Proto-Balkan (Thracian/Greek) and/or Hittite and/or Phrygian origin?
    First let's see how YFull classifies your sample. The FTDNA classification seems to be a bit off right now as they are still working on Y-700. If YFull detects your unnamed variants in another A12332 sample, for example the Albanian one, there will be a new TMRCA and the picture could be a lot clearer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelmendasi View Post
    As for the Thracians, imo they mainly belonged to R-CTS9219 clades such as BY611 and Y5586.
    I agree on Y5586. BY611, as Trojet mentioned has three branches that show no connection to Thracians, and BY611's itself split from the rest of CTS9219 earlier than the existence of the Thracians, so it seems very unlikely that it was connected to them.
    Last edited by Ownstyler; 03-09-2019 at 08:47 PM.

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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trojet View Post
    Which R-BY611 clade do you think is Thracian? After the latest NGS tests, we can see that R-Z2705 looks Western Balkan. R-Y30192 has a TMRCA of ~2100 ybp between an Italian and the Spanish. The third and final BY611 branch is in Sardinia. Perhaps you meant BY250 instead of BY611?
    I was just thinking that since this group has been in the Balkan area for ages, maybe some Thracians would've carried it. I agree with you about Z2705 showing a western origin in the Balkans, I expect it to have been pretty common among Illyric speakers. BY611 in general is pretty western considering where basal clades are found.
    Ftdna MyOrigins 2.0: 100% SE European

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  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronHorse View Post
    R1b-L584, just because it occurs in Armenians, doesn't mean every Greek L584 is Armenian, by this logic, E-V13 FTDNA project has more Englishmen than Greeks, who don't participate in projects so much.

    ever heard of Graeco-Armenian ?
    I did mention that L584 in the Balkans could be from Hellenic speakers or Phrygians, precisely because of the Graeco-Armenian link. It was just that A12332 does seem very common among Armenians and a Balkan Armenian guy did belong to a subclade of A12332.
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    Maternal Ydna: E-V13>CTS5856*

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  16. #29
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    I can't send PMs, so I am replying to Ownstyler, here. Thanks for your help, and I'll follow your advice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelmendasi View Post
    Interesting, don't want to hijack the thread, but what has made you come to believing it is Slavic? From what I have seen BY611 in general seems to have no close association with any Slavic speaking group, the Balkan clusters especially. Basal clades of BY611 seem to be showing up in western Europe as I mentioned before, Spain and Italy. Z2705, which could be considered the "Balkan cluster", has strong links to Albanians. It is highest in areas that Albanians inhabit and have had influence in the past. Basal clades of Z2705 mainly seem to pop up in Albania, Greece and Bulgaria. There have been some Z2705>Y32147 found in Ukraine(Odessa) and Romania(Teleorman), but going by the specific locations of these samples and their histories, it is clear that they are of Albanian or Balkan origin.
    You're correct (in my opinion). While the age BY611 is young, there is no way the CTS9219 ancestor was living just east of the Baltic, around Belarus, like we can predict for Slavic subclades of I2-CTS10228, R1a-M458, M558...etc. These branches all have young expansion times and are very common from Czech Rep, Belarus, Poland, Ukraine, Serbia, and generally anywhere else where the Slavic family of languages is spoken. The most closely related lineages also seem to be lingering around the area as well, where as the parallel lines to BY611 are centered in western/south-western Europe.

    If I had to "guess", I would predict the BY611 ancestor line was living in north Croatia prior to the arrival of Slavic speakers. The young age could be due to selective breeding or some other factor like depopulation.
    Last edited by ADW_1981; 03-10-2019 at 09:35 PM.
    YDNA: R1b-Z220 (A7066+) (1800's Stepney, London(Bethnal Green), UK George Wood b. 1782
    maternal-grandfather YDNA: prob. I1 Gurr, George 1843, Feversham, Kent, England.
    maternal-grandmother YDNA: R1b-P311+ Beech, John Richard b. 1780, Lewes, England
    maternal-ggrandfather YDNA R1b-U106 Thomas, Edward b 1854, Sittingbourne, Kent
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Gould, John Somerset England 1800s.
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Scott, William Hamilton mdka Ireland(?) < 1800s

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