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Thread: Ancestry´s Ethnicity Mix: a mess!

  1. #1
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    Ancestry´s Ethnicity Mix: a mess!

    Hello all,

    I´ve just received AncestryDNA´s test results with their Ethnicity Mix and it´s ... well, a mess.

    My family - both sides - immigrated from Europe (Northern Italy, Austria, Germany) to Brazil, South America in the time range 1890- 1900 - my great-grandparents were all born in Europe.

    Two points to prove the mess (at least how I see it, being no specialist)

    a) We definitely have no Amerindian family members - but I get a 7% Amerindian ethnicity.

    How can that possibly be?

    b) My highest percentage is for their "France region" which - if I got it correctly - includes all of Switzerland, parts of Southwestern Germany, parts of Austria and - Northern Italy. We also don´t have any known ancestors from France proper (i.e. French speaking people).

    How can that be?

    I´m interested in hearing if others made similar observations with their tests.

    Thanks!

    Appius

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Appius View Post
    ...
    Two points to prove the mess (at least how I see it, being no specialist)

    a) We definitely s all of Switzerland, parts of Southwestern Germany, parts of Austria and - Northern Italy. We also don´t have any known ancestors from France proper (i.e. French speaking people).

    How can that be?

    I´m interested in hearing if others made similar observations with their tests.

    Thanks!

    Appius
    Can you please post your results and Eurogenes K13?
    Hidden Content

    Eurogenes K13 Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
    1. 63.1% Swedish + 36.9% Spanish_Andalucia @ 2.93

    Dodecad K12b
    7. 66.4% Norwegian + 33.6% TSI30 (Metspalu) @ 3.24
    9. 60.6% Norwegian + 39.4% N_Italian @ 3.32

     

    [1] "distance%=4.0727"
    Nino_scaled

    FARMERS-Balkans_Neolithic,42
    STEPPE-Eneolithic,35.8
    HUNTERS-WHG,16.6
    HUNTERS-West_Siberia_Neolithic,5
    EAST-ASIATIC_Neolithic,0.4

    IBEROMAURUSIAN,0.2

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  4. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nino90 View Post
    Can you please post your results and Eurogenes K13?
    I´ll upload my data to GEDMatch soon and will come back here with the results.
    Thanks!
    Last edited by Appius; 03-06-2019 at 04:34 PM. Reason: (found answer to original post question)

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  6. #4
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    Gedmatch (https://www.gedmatch.com/login1.php) has tests like Eurogenes K13 -- you'd have to upload.

    Are any other family members tested? Is this your first test?

    7% Amerindian is usually going to be real.

    On the French, could be related to the Northern Italy, sometimes it confuses those these days. Can you post the specific results in their entirety?

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    It´s simply impossible to have 7% Amerindian in my family; they have all come from Europe at a very late date (1890-1900) and (apart from that) no Amerindian phenotypical tracts whatsoever in the whole family. We do have lots of red-heads which could explain the 4% Great Britain and Ireland though (kind of joking).

    Can it be that they arrive at this conclusion by taking other people´s mixture which are indicated as 4th-6th cousins and this with very low common cM?
    That they are taking part of their mixture and deriving mine from that?

    Yes - first test; no other family members tested.

    Yes, I´ll do the GEDMatch stuff first in the next few days and will then post everything here.

    Thanks!

  9. #6
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    If you score 7 % Some of your ancestors must have been part native.
    How can you be sure that all of your ancestors are 100% European?

    North Europeans can score some Amerindian like 1-2%. But that is proto-eurasian.
    If you are south European/central European and score 7% and have all family in South America. I would say that you have some real native ancestry.
    Hidden Content

    Eurogenes K13 Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
    1. 63.1% Swedish + 36.9% Spanish_Andalucia @ 2.93

    Dodecad K12b
    7. 66.4% Norwegian + 33.6% TSI30 (Metspalu) @ 3.24
    9. 60.6% Norwegian + 39.4% N_Italian @ 3.32

     

    [1] "distance%=4.0727"
    Nino_scaled

    FARMERS-Balkans_Neolithic,42
    STEPPE-Eneolithic,35.8
    HUNTERS-WHG,16.6
    HUNTERS-West_Siberia_Neolithic,5
    EAST-ASIATIC_Neolithic,0.4

    IBEROMAURUSIAN,0.2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nino90 View Post
    North Europeans can score some Amerindian like 1-2%. But that is proto-eurasian.
    If you are south European/central European and score 7% and have all family in South America. I would say that you have some real native ancestry.
    Can't say it much better than this.
    Paper trail ancestry to the best of my knowledge:
    English (possibly containing some Welsh ancestry) 31.25%, Eastern European and Eastern German (Galicia, Poland) 25%, Scottish 17.96%, Scotch-Irish 12.5%, French 8.2%, Native American 1.95%, and Colonial American, 3.125%, which cannot be determined with complete certainty: there is Dutch (at least 1.36%) and some English. The rest could include Spanish, Norwegian, German, and French, but these percentages would be minuscule.

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    7% is definitely in the realm of a real DNA signal. I would even say anything in GEDMATCH above 2% is real Native American DNA because these comparative DNA tests are all known to be very accurate on the continental level; i.e. they do a very good reliable job of distinguishing between Europe, Africa, Asia, America, etc. Any signal < 2% or so is getting to be very uncertain with the GEDMATCH tests (as mentioned even fully Northwestern Europeans get 1-2% Amerindian with those), probably because their reference panels are quite poorly populated. With commercial tests like Ancestry and 23andme (which have reference panels 10-20 times or more the size of the GEDMATCH ones) they are able to distinguish lower percentages much better. For Ancestry and 23andme, I would believe even 1% signals of Native American are real. Thankfully Ancestry stops at the 1% precision level, but 23andme does not. As for 23andme I don't for one minute believe 23andme can find anything to the 0.1% level like they think they can!

    I would suggest that the uncertainties of both Ancestry and23andme are +/-0.5% (e.g. you can't measure to better than +/- half a millimetre with a metre stick graded in millimetres!). In otherwords, anything less than 0.5% tests would be highly questionable.

    Anyhow, your results do suggest that somewhere, sometime, one or more of your European ancestors married a part-native (or full native) person. It may suggest you have a NPE in one or more of your family lines, or "Not Parent Expected" - i.e. perhaps one of your European ancestors adopted a native american person and this was undocumented?

    Oh yes, and as a famous geneticist once said - phenotype does not necessarily equal genotype!
    Mum = 50% Irish, 50% Ukrainian (Romanian=?)
    Dad = 40% French-Canadian, 10% Irish, 50% English
    Big Y + YTree.net = R M269 -> DF27 -> Z195 -> FGC34881 -> FGC34865 (SW France; ~500 ybp)
    FTDNA mtDNA Full Sequence = J1c2e
    Most Distant Known Ancestor = Jean Moreau b. 1630s Parthenay, Deux-Sèvres, France
    Surnames = Welch, Chibry, Moreau, Todd, Anderson, Bedford, Joncas, Basaraba

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  15. #9
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    All of my eight grand-parents were born in Europe. They immigrated between 1890 and 1900 and there is *nothing* that indicates they were Indians from the European Alps, or that they married Indians. We're talking about a limited amount of time here, I was born in the mid 60s and nothing points to Indian ancestry. If I am 1/4 or 1/8 Indian this would be visible in my physical type - nothing there.
    I'll do the uploadings and see if I get answers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Appius View Post
    If I am 1/4 or 1/8 Indian this would be visible in my physical type - nothing there.
    Maybe, but my wife has part-native 1st and 2nd half-cousins once-twice removed (her grandfather remarried a full native woman) who are blond haired and blue-eyed, and are only 9% - 12% or so Native according to Ancestry.
    Mum = 50% Irish, 50% Ukrainian (Romanian=?)
    Dad = 40% French-Canadian, 10% Irish, 50% English
    Big Y + YTree.net = R M269 -> DF27 -> Z195 -> FGC34881 -> FGC34865 (SW France; ~500 ybp)
    FTDNA mtDNA Full Sequence = J1c2e
    Most Distant Known Ancestor = Jean Moreau b. 1630s Parthenay, Deux-Sèvres, France
    Surnames = Welch, Chibry, Moreau, Todd, Anderson, Bedford, Joncas, Basaraba

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