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Thread: Ancestry┤s Ethnicity Mix: a mess!

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by fostert View Post
    7% is definitely in the realm of a real DNA signal. I would even say anything in GEDMATCH above 2% is real Native American DNA because these comparative DNA tests are all known to be very accurate on the continental level; i.e. they do a very good reliable job of distinguishing between Europe, Africa, Asia, America, etc. Any signal < 2% or so is getting to be very uncertain with the GEDMATCH tests (as mentioned even fully Northwestern Europeans get 1-2% Amerindian with those), probably because their reference panels are quite poorly populated.
    My dad would be an exception to the 2% guideline. He gets 2.28% Amerindian with Eurogenes K13. He gets <1% South America with FTDNA which would be only noise. However, 7% from a commercial company seems to be too high for it not to be considered real and as you say it's easier to distinguish ancestry on the continental level rather than between countries like Germany and Britain for example.
    Last edited by FionnSneachta; 03-07-2019 at 10:55 AM.
    Ancestry: Ireland (Paper trail ≅ 81.25% Roscommon, 12.5% Galway, 6.25% Mayo)
    Y-DNA (P) ancestor (Y): Kelly b. c1830 in Co. Roscommon (UÝ Maine)
    mtDNA (P) ancestor: Fleming b. c1831 in Co. Roscommon
    mtDNA (M) ancestor: McDermott b. c1814 in Co. Roscommon
    mtDNA Great grandfather: Connella b. c1798 in Co. Roscommon (T2a1a8)
    Y-DNA 2x great grandfather: Higgins b. c1816 in Co. Roscommon (R-DF109)
    Y-DNA 3x great grandfather: Fleming b. c1829 in Co. Roscommon (R-Z23534)

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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by FionnSneachta View Post
    My dad would be an exception to the 2% guideline. He gets 2.28% Amerindian with Eurogenes K13. He gets <1% South America with FTDNA which would be only noise. However, 7% from a commercial company seems to be too high for it not to be considered real and as you say it's easier to distinguish ancestry on the continental level rather than between countries like Germany and Britain for example.
    Yes, I agree...I am sure these errors have a random distribution component to them, so the 1-sigma error could easily be 1-2%. That means a false signal like 2.28% could be a 2- or even a 3-sigma event, within the uncertainties.
    Paper trail ancestry:
    Mum = 50% Irish, 37.5% Ukrainian, 12.5% Romanian
    Dad = 43.75% French-Canadian, 6.25% Irish, 50% English (25% Essex and 25% Northumberland)
    Big Y 500 = R M269 -> DF27 -> Z195 -> FGC34865 (Western France; ~500 ybp)
    mtDNA = J1c2e
    Most Distant Known Ancestor = Jean Moreau b. 1630s Parthenay, Deux-SŔvres, France
    Surnames = Welch, Chibry, Moreau, Todd, Anderson, Bedford, Joncas, Basaraba

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  5. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Appius View Post
    Can it be that they arrive at this conclusion by taking other people┤s mixture which are indicated as 4th-6th cousins and this with very low common cM? That they are taking part of their mixture and deriving mine from that?
    No, they don't do that.

  6. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Appius View Post
    All of my eight grand-parents were born in Europe. They immigrated between 1890 and 1900 and there is *nothing* that indicates they were Indians from the European Alps, or that they married Indians. We're talking about a limited amount of time here, I was born in the mid 60s and nothing points to Indian ancestry. If I am 1/4 or 1/8 Indian this would be visible in my physical type - nothing there.
    I'll do the uploadings and see if I get answers.
    Interesting mystery. Getting Gedmatch should help shed light on whether it's just some weird Ancestry thing. I wouldn't put much stake in the physical type thing, though. I have a photo of a (3rd or so) cousin who was 1/8 or 1/16 Native American, and no one would know it -- I am not even sure if he knew it. Blond, blue-eyed, no features that seem Native American. His grandmother remarried after her (part) Native American husband died and soon thereafter her son changed his last name and by the time he was married he was identified as white in the census. The man I am talking about is the son of that child's son.
    Last edited by msmarjoribanks; 03-06-2019 at 08:01 PM.

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  8. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by FionnSneachta View Post
    My dad would be an exception to the 2% guideline. He gets 2.28% Amerindian with Eurogenes K13. He gets <1% South America with FTDNA which would be only noise. However, 7% from a commercial company seems to be too high for it not to be considered real and as you say it's easier to distinguish ancestry on the continental level rather than between countries like Germany and Britain for example.
    Yeah, I agree that over 2% on Gedmatch doesn't always mean anything. There's one test I get 3-something % on, but the others I get somewhere between 0 and 1.5%. Similarly, my dad is around 3% on another test (different than the one I'm high on) but otherwise gets lower numbers.

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  10. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Appius View Post
    Hello all,

    I┤ve just received AncestryDNA┤s test results with their Ethnicity Mix and it┤s ... well, a mess.

    My family - both sides - immigrated from Europe (Northern Italy, Austria, Germany) to Brazil, South America in the time range 1890- 1900 - my great-grandparents were all born in Europe.

    Two points to prove the mess (at least how I see it, being no specialist)

    a) We definitely have no Amerindian family members - but I get a 7% Amerindian ethnicity.

    How can that possibly be?

    b) My highest percentage is for their "France region" which - if I got it correctly - includes all of Switzerland, parts of Southwestern Germany, parts of Austria and - Northern Italy. We also don┤t have any known ancestors from France proper (i.e. French speaking people).

    How can that be?

    I┤m interested in hearing if others made similar observations with their tests.

    Thanks!

    Appius
    My father was born in Germany before WWII, but his mother was an American of largely pre-1700 British colonial descent. These things do happen.

    Also my German 2nd great-grandfather's oldest brother left Germany for New York, married an American, joined the Union Army and was killed during the Civil War at Chancellorsville. His wife and daughter moved to Germany after his death.
    So again, just because they were born in Germany in the 1800s, doesn't guarantee their family was always there.
    R1b>M269>L23>L51>L11>P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833 >S4281>S4268>Z17112>BY44243

    Ancestors: Francis Cooke (M223/I2a2a) b1583; Hester Mahieu (Cooke) (J1c2 mtDNA) b.1584; Richard Warren (E-M35) b1578; Elizabeth Walker (Warren) (H1j mtDNA) b1583;
    John Mead (I2a1/P37.2) b1634; Rev. Joseph Hull (I1, L1301+ L1302-) b1595; Benjamin Harrington (M223/I2a2a-Y5729) b1618; Joshua Griffith (L21>DF13) b1593;
    John Wing (U106) b1584; Thomas Gunn (DF19) b1605; Hermann Wilhelm (DF19) b1635

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  12. #17
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    Hmm I've been a member of Ancestry for a long time - working on family tree etc - but just recently got my DNA done there (I also have lots done at FTDNA etc). I'd say their "new" update is fairly accurate in my case: I get Ireland/Scotland at 49% with sub groups Munster and Leinster. Next is Germanic Europe at 22% (I have lots of German ancestry from Pennsylvania on my Father's side). Then England, Wales and NW Europe at 21% - I'm a bit confused at this one because does it include Belgium or Netherlands? It says primarily located in England, Scotland, and Wales. Then France at 4%, Norway and Sweden at 2% each. Sounds about right from what I know of my ancestry.

    Also I have been able to make some connections via DNA cousin matches to family groups I've had my eye on, but nice to see it show up in the DNA matches.

    Cheers,
    Charlie

    Edit: The two European subgroups that I get are as I said Munster and Leinster, Ireland. American groups I get are Northeastern States Settlers: Rhode Island and Southeastern Mass. settlers and New England and Eastern Great Lake Settlers per mostly my Mother's side. On my Father's side it would be mostly in the sub group: Pennsylvania Settlers (this includes parts of Maryland and Ohio - and I do see it reflected in the extended family tree of some of the families that moved around and were related etc.) and sub group under that is Susquehanna River Valley Settlers ;-).
    Last edited by Bollox79; 03-07-2019 at 12:55 AM.
    Y-DNA: 5th GGF Captain Johann Martin Weber, 1st Pennsylvania (Long) Rifles/Rangers of the Frontier, Rev. War, b. 1739 in Rhineland, Germany, d. 1804 Dauphin, PA. : R1b-U106-DF98-S1911-S1894/S1900-S4004... FGC14817 shared with 6drif-3 - one of the "Headless" Roman Gladiator/Soldiers of Eboracum.

    mtDNA: 3rd GGM Bridget O'Danagher b. 1843 Lorrha/Dorrha, Ireland - T2b2b - Pagan Icelander SSG-A3 (grave 4) - SÝlasta­ir in Eyjafjar­arsřsla, North Iceland is T2b2b.

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  14. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bollox79 View Post
    Hmm I've been a member of Ancestry for a long time - working on family tree etc - but just recently got my DNA done there (I also have lots done at FTDNA etc). I'd say their "new" update is fairly accurate in my case: I get Ireland/Scotland at 49% with sub groups Munster and Leinster. Next is Germanic Europe at 22% (I have lots of German ancestry from Pennsylvania on my Father's side). Then England, Wales and NW Europe at 21% - I'm a bit confused at this one because does it include Belgium or Netherlands? It says primarily located in England, Scotland, and Wales. Then France at 4%, Norway and Sweden at 2% each. Sounds about right from what I know of my ancestry.
    Yeah, Dad got
    51% England, Wales & Northwestern Europe
    40% Germanic Europe
    5% European Jewish
    4% French

    ^^I have to say it's by far the closest any commercial test has gotten to the last 500 years of his paper ancestry.
    R1b>M269>L23>L51>L11>P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833 >S4281>S4268>Z17112>BY44243

    Ancestors: Francis Cooke (M223/I2a2a) b1583; Hester Mahieu (Cooke) (J1c2 mtDNA) b.1584; Richard Warren (E-M35) b1578; Elizabeth Walker (Warren) (H1j mtDNA) b1583;
    John Mead (I2a1/P37.2) b1634; Rev. Joseph Hull (I1, L1301+ L1302-) b1595; Benjamin Harrington (M223/I2a2a-Y5729) b1618; Joshua Griffith (L21>DF13) b1593;
    John Wing (U106) b1584; Thomas Gunn (DF19) b1605; Hermann Wilhelm (DF19) b1635

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  16. #19
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    I'm not 100% convinced on the latest Ancestry version either. Mainly, I'm referring to my maternal grandfather who was born in Austria. He is 25% of me, nicht wahr? But I only get 10% Germanic Europe, and no Eastern Europe. The rest of the test result is in north or NW Europe. I have a few, mostly recent, Slavic matches at FTDNA. The 2 Russian ones may be from Catherine-the-Great's Germans, from north Germany. But two (I think) are from Ukraine. Another one is unknown origin in the old Soviet realm (last name starts with "Shev.."). Also, the mysterious sponsor to the USA of my grandfather (as a teen) had a Ukrainian or Russian last name. Then there is the FTDNA match (61/9 cm) from New Zealand who is half Dalmatian (Croatia) and half Dutch. That one could be a toss up. But any Dutch in my DNA would be back in colonial times, and not much of that. Ancestry does not give me anything in the south or east of Europe, with the exception of 2% Baltic.
    Last edited by Baltimore1937; 03-07-2019 at 08:22 AM.

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  18. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bollox79 View Post
    Hmm I've been a member of Ancestry for a long time - working on family tree etc - but just recently got my DNA done there (I also have lots done at FTDNA etc). I'd say their "new" update is fairly accurate in my case: I get Ireland/Scotland at 49% with sub groups Munster and Leinster. Next is Germanic Europe at 22% (I have lots of German ancestry from Pennsylvania on my Father's side). Then England, Wales and NW Europe at 21% - I'm a bit confused at this one because does it include Belgium or Netherlands? It says primarily located in England, Scotland, and Wales. Then France at 4%, Norway and Sweden at 2% each. Sounds about right from what I know of my ancestry.
    Yeah, it frequently does. That's why they changed the name to "and NW Europe," and if you look at the map associated it has a pretty broad range. They can't separate these various ancestries well, too similar.

    My results are pretty good -- 69% England, etc.; 23% Ireland/Scotland; and 8% Swedish -- but are flattened out, as my W/SW German seems to be in the England, etc. category. That's one reason I think my 23andMe is actually better (although they are quite similar -- I do get 11% Scandinavian (Sweden) there, which is closer to what it should be on paper, and more consistent with the number of matches I get on that line, but not a huge difference).

    My German is far back and immediately intermingled with the English and Scots-Irish lines, but I get 18% German/French at 23andMe. My sister gets a little Germanic Europe and some French (3%, which is exactly consistent with the paper results). My rough estimate is that we are around 12.5%-15% German too, and possibly a little Dutch (I have an ancestor I think was Dutch and several Ancestry matches through him).

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