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Thread: On the origin of E-M183

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    Y-DNA (P)

    Quote Originally Posted by sam-iJ-ZS1727 View Post
    TMRCA of E-m81 is between 1900 and 2300 years, exactly the time Carthaginian cities collapsed.
    we can imagine an immigration from south or from interior part of North west Africa i(the mountains and deserts).
    Samples in the levant with E-m81 descend certainly from Fatimide berber spldiers who conquered Egypt and parts of the Levant.
    The Euro-asiatic autosomal of the e-m81 samples is due to the mtdna not to ydna. 80% of feminine samples in North Africa are of Euro-Asiatic and Middle-eastern origin.
    Remember the ancient Greek called people living in the carthaginian frontier Mauri and ethiopians : They were Black
    The Libyan inscriptions found in dugga in Tunisia are of an unknown language which is the sister of Berber and Egyptian but not berber. We assume that those Mauri/Mauritanians were the brothers of fulani and ancient west Egyptians. R-V88 of the Fulani/Siwa must have lived in North west africa too. It is responsible for the spread of chadic languages and perhaps berber.
    the berber e-m81 and libyan e-v65, in my opinion lived between Egypt and Libya perhaps close to the Lake chad.
    Nothing links Berbers to Phoenicians in coastal cities in north west africa, even the name Lbw or Libyans in Punic appeared after the invasion of Rome, no text before the invasion mentions them or an other tribe.
    the collapse of Carthaginian cities and the advance of "Numides" which means Nomads was due in part to the Berbers.
    E-M81 is clearly linked to the Amoritic expansion as demonstrated above. As for E-M81 being linked to blackness, the populations with the highest frequencies of E-M81 are also the whitest, the most Arab-admixed and Native-admixed populations are typically more SSA-looking which isn't surprising considering that the Arab homeland is right next to Ethiopia, and that J* and J1 peak among two black populations, namely Socotris and Yemenis. Blackness in North Africa is linked to three sources: Natives (E-V65), Arabs (J1) and West Africans (E-M2).

    Here's a few quote of ancient authors on the phenotype of Libyans, here the word Libyan isn't ethnic but geographic and most likely designated the E-M81 Canaanites:

    Quote Originally Posted by Scylax, Periplous
    And there live around it all the Libyans and a city beyond towards the sun’s setting; for all these people are said to be fair, frugal and very beautiful.
    Note that Scylax speaks of "a city beyond towards the sun's setting" i.e. the West, here he is clearly talking about the Westernmost Libyans aka the Moors/Amorites.

    Quote Originally Posted by Callimachus, Hymn to Apollo
    Greatly, indeed, did Phoebus rejoice as the belted warriors of Enyo danced with the yellow-haired Libyan women, when the appointed season of the Carnean feast came round.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucan, Pharsalia
    This band with Libyan, that with auburn hair ; Red so that Caesar on the banks of Rhine ; None such had witnessed; some with features scorched ; By torrid suns, their locks in twisted coil.
    The Egyptians had already noted that North Africa wasn't homogeneous but that there were two populations: the Black Tehennu linked to E-V65, and the White Temehu linked to E-M81.
    Quote Originally Posted by Current Progress in Afro-Asiatic Linguistics: Papers of the Third International Hamito-Semitic Congress, Page 249
    It would seem that Atlantic itself was not a homogenous unity, judging from Libyans depicted by the Ancient Egyptians; Thus the Tehenu were of Mediterranean type and physically ressembled the Egyptians while the fair Temehu, shown wearing long learther cloacks, seem to have belonged to a different civilization. Perhaps the word afawwu 'cloack' in Shilha belongs to the language of the Temehu.
    White Temehu

    Black Tehenu

    The Iron Age Maghreb crania are almost identical to the Lachish crania that differs significantly from the much closer Iron Age Phoenician crania from Achziv. Culturally speaking, Iron Age North Africans and Lachish Amorites were the only populations to practice angular trephination, this practice set them apart from the whole Mediterranea.

    Quote Originally Posted by An Analysis of Crania From Tell-Duweir Using Multiple Discriminant Functions
    The Lachish series is found to plot nearest the Maghreb and “E” series, both of whose centroids plot nearer the Romano-British groups than any of the other series; the D2 value between these series is significant as previously noted. Examination of the classification results (when Lachish is run as an unknown) shows that the “E” series receives the plurality, with the Maghreb series receiving a very small percentage.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cranial deformation and trephination in the Middle East
    The kind of cranial trephination found at the site of Timna in the Negev, which refers to sometime between the end о the Iron Age and end of the Roman period, is of the angular type (Ferembach, 1957), similar to the trephination in two of the skulls from Lachish. Hence it differs from the round trephining found in all the Hellenistic — Roman specimens. As previously noted the angular trephination especially appears to be associated with a very low rate of survival, indicated by lack of healing of the wound in the skull, and may have been practiced for ritual rather than for therapeutic reasons. Ferembach has remarked that the Lachish and Timna trephinations were identical with those found in North Africa in the 3rd century B.C.E. dolmens of Roknia and in modern Berber crania from the Aures mountains.
    Last edited by Shamayim; 03-13-2019 at 02:16 PM.

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