Page 5 of 13 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 123

Thread: On the origin of E-M183

  1. #41
    Registered Users
    Posts
    113
    Sex
    Y-DNA
    E-M183

    The new study on Iberia just came out and just as i predicted the Copper Age North African isn't E-L19 but E-V68. E-V13 is nowhere to be found in the Greco-Roman period, but suddenly explodes in the Moorish period. It seems that E-V13 is one of the major Berber lineage. I wonder how Greeks and Albanians got their E-V13...

    Last but not least one of the two E-M183 is 18% Levantine

    It appears that i was right and that Berber is rather related to E-M78 than E-L19. A Berber origin of E-M183 is definitely dead.
    Last edited by Shamayim; 03-15-2019 at 02:47 AM.

  2. #42
    Registered Users
    Posts
    119
    Sex
    Location
    סוף מערב
    Ethnicity
    Western Jewish
    Nationality
    USA
    Y-DNA
    E-Y6938

    Quote Originally Posted by Shamayim View Post
    I wonder how Greeks and Albanians got their E-V13...
    Not from Maghrebis, I'd bet almost anything.

    Though I am curious about how and when my Cuban-American father-and-son friends' E-M78 ended up in Spain. (Sadly 23andMe doesn't identify a downstream marker.)
    Last edited by hartaisarlag; 03-15-2019 at 03:03 AM.

  3. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to hartaisarlag For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (03-15-2019),  Power77 (03-16-2019)

  4. #43
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,091
    Sex
    Location
    Viseu
    Ethnicity
    Romanised Vissaieici
    Nationality
    Portuguese
    Y-DNA
    E-BY36857
    mtDNA
    H20

    Portugal 1143 Portugal 1485 Portugal Order of Christ
    Quote Originally Posted by Shamayim View Post
    E-V13 is nowhere to be found in the Greco-Roman period, but suddenly explodes in the Moorish period. It seems that E-V13 is one of the major Berber lineage. I wonder how Greeks and Albanians got their E-V13...
    Just because they didn't find one in the Roman Era samples it doesn't mean it wasn't there, though. Suggesting E-V13 is Berber is borderline insane



    Quote Originally Posted by hartaisarlag View Post
    Not from Maghrebis, I'd be almost anything.

    Though I am curious about how and when my Cuban-American father-and-son friends' E-M78 ended up in Spain. (Sadly 23andMe doesn't identify a downstream marker.)
    Have you tried Morley yet? It correctly predicted me as E-PF4428 and that is a very rare subclade
    Last edited by Ruderico; 03-15-2019 at 03:04 AM.
    YDNA - E-Y31991>PF4428>BY36857. Domingos Rodrigues, b. circa 1680 Hidden Content , Viana do Castelo, Portugal
    mtDNA - H20. Maria Josefa de Almeida, b. circa 1750 Hidden Content , Porto, Portugal

    Global25 PCA West Eurasia dataset Hidden Content
    Hidden Content


    [1] "distance%=1.7726"

    Ruderico

    Celtiberian,77.6
    Roman_Imperial_proxy,13.6
    Guanche,8.8

  5. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Ruderico For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (03-15-2019),  Govan (03-15-2019),  hartaisarlag (03-15-2019),  Kelmendasi (03-16-2019),  Power77 (03-16-2019)

  6. #44
    Banned
    Posts
    207
    Sex
    Location
    London

    Quote Originally Posted by hartaisarlag View Post
    Not from Maghrebis, I'd bet almost anything.

    Though I am curious about how and when my Cuban-American father-and-son friends' E-M78 ended up in Spain. (Sadly 23andMe doesn't identify a downstream marker.)
    What do you mean?

    One of the Iberomaurusian sample does carry a lineage ancestral to EV13.

    Ultimately the roots of EV13 is in North Africa and the oldest clades associated with is Iberomaurusian's.
    Last edited by Govan; 03-15-2019 at 03:09 AM.

  7. #45
    Registered Users
    Posts
    119
    Sex
    Location
    סוף מערב
    Ethnicity
    Western Jewish
    Nationality
    USA
    Y-DNA
    E-Y6938

    Quote Originally Posted by Govan View Post
    What do you mean?

    One of the Iberomaurusian sample does carry a lineage ancestral to EV13.

    Ultimately the roots of EV13 is in North Africa and the oldest clades associated with is Iberomaurusian's.
    I'm rejecting the implication that E-V13 reached Albania and Greece by way of Berbers. Paleolithic Maghrebis, maybe. However, the mainland southern Balkans show no particular sign of elevated Northwest African autosomal ancestry.

  8. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to hartaisarlag For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (03-15-2019),  Power77 (03-16-2019)

  9. #46
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,091
    Sex
    Location
    Viseu
    Ethnicity
    Romanised Vissaieici
    Nationality
    Portuguese
    Y-DNA
    E-BY36857
    mtDNA
    H20

    Portugal 1143 Portugal 1485 Portugal Order of Christ
    Quote Originally Posted by hartaisarlag View Post
    I'm rejecting the implication that E-V13 reached Albania and Greece by way of Berbers. Paleolithic Maghrebis, maybe. However, the mainland southern Balkans show no particular sign of elevated Northwest African autosomal ancestry.
    It was probably the consequence of Levantine individuals who carried distant Iberomaurusian patrilinear lines (E). Mine was probably the same, but it might have arrived in Europe earlier, if our presumed analysis of TMRCA is correct - ~7000 BP, so far with only European individuals
    Last edited by Ruderico; 03-15-2019 at 03:28 AM.
    YDNA - E-Y31991>PF4428>BY36857. Domingos Rodrigues, b. circa 1680 Hidden Content , Viana do Castelo, Portugal
    mtDNA - H20. Maria Josefa de Almeida, b. circa 1750 Hidden Content , Porto, Portugal

    Global25 PCA West Eurasia dataset Hidden Content
    Hidden Content


    [1] "distance%=1.7726"

    Ruderico

    Celtiberian,77.6
    Roman_Imperial_proxy,13.6
    Guanche,8.8

  10. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Ruderico For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (03-15-2019),  hartaisarlag (03-15-2019),  Power77 (03-16-2019)

  11. #47
    Registered Users
    Posts
    113
    Sex
    Y-DNA
    E-M183

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruderico View Post
    Just because they didn't find one in the Roman Era samples it doesn't mean it wasn't there, obviously. Suggesting E-V13 is Berber is borderline insane
    As a quick reminder, E-V13 wasn't found among Minoans (Lazaridis et al. 2017), Mycenaeans (Lazaridis et al. 2017), Greeks (Olalde et al. 2019) and Romans (Amorim et al. 2018; Olalde et al. 2019). We have enough Hellenic and Roman samples to safely claim that E-V13 is unrelated to Greco-Romans, the only subclade of E-M78 found among Romans was E-V22. E-V13 is nowhere to be found in Iberia until Berber invaded it. It would also explain why E-M183 is almost absent from Iberia unlike E-V13.

    Suggesting that Basques were Indo-European (paternally) was also considered insane not too long ago. Suggesting that Natufians weren't Sardinian-like was also considered insane.

  12. #48
    Registered Users
    Posts
    119
    Sex
    Location
    סוף מערב
    Ethnicity
    Western Jewish
    Nationality
    USA
    Y-DNA
    E-Y6938

    Quote Originally Posted by Shamayim View Post
    As a quick reminder, E-V13 wasn't found among Minoans (Lazaridis et al. 2017), Mycenaeans (Lazaridis et al. 2017), Greeks (Olalde et al. 2019) and Romans (Amorim et al. 2018; Olalde et al. 2019). We have enough Hellenic and Roman samples to safely claim that E-V13 is unrelated to Greco-Romans, the only subclade of E-M78 found among Romans was E-V22. E-V13 is nowhere to be found in Iberia until Berber invaded it. It would also explain why E-M183 is almost absent from Iberia unlike E-V13.

    Suggesting that Basques were Indo-European (paternally) was also considered insane not too long ago. Suggesting that Natufians weren't Sardinian-like was also considered insane.
    Wait, wait, wait. So you mean to say that Berbers were dominated by E-V13 during the 8th century AD, and were only later "Canaanized" and swept with E-M183?

  13. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to hartaisarlag For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (03-15-2019),  Power77 (03-16-2019)

  14. #49
    Banned
    Posts
    207
    Sex
    Location
    London

    Quote Originally Posted by Missouri1455 View Post
    Modern pop. are not the same as ancient ones I agree; but clearly Berbers and Proto-Berbers are not the same population; the continuum % with Ibereomaurisian is still low in Libya/Tunisia; 20% is not enough for a continuum; it has to exceed at least 50% to make a strong case for continuum; but genetically speaking the Maghreb is Middle Eastern influenced; which is clearly not the case with Taforalt.
    Sure but I don't know where you're at.
    Last edited by Govan; 03-15-2019 at 04:48 AM.

  15. #50
    Registered Users
    Posts
    113
    Sex
    Y-DNA
    E-M183

    Quote Originally Posted by hartaisarlag View Post
    Wait, wait, wait. So you mean to say that Berbers were dominated by E-V13 during the 8th century AD, and were only later "Canaanized" and swept with E-M183?
    Berbers were dominated by E-M78(V65 and V13) but later received E-M183 from Amorites. Guanches, as an example, were almost as much as E-M78 than E-M183.

    2016_Ordonez_Table2.jpg

Page 5 of 13 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. X2M'N Origin?
    By Maximilian in forum X
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 06-06-2017, 08:44 PM
  2. Ancestral origin and Haplogroup origin
    By Smilelover in forum FTDNA
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-17-2016, 10:26 AM
  3. Origin of E ?
    By #YoloSwag in forum E
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 08-16-2016, 12:28 PM
  4. Origin(s) of Y-DNA J
    By Agamemnon in forum J
    Replies: 57
    Last Post: 09-03-2015, 11:08 PM
  5. DE/YAP+ origin?
    By Ezana in forum Other
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 08-14-2012, 03:31 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •