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Thread: Help with English genealogy.

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by FionnSneachta View Post
    It seems to be your mother MB4123081 sharing 7.4 cM. However, your mum matches my dad on chromosome 5 (172,769,501 - 174,965,974) while you match my dad on chromosome 10 (115,779,717 - 120,142,022). If I reduce the parameters for matching with your mum, she does also match my dad on chromosome 10 sharing 6.2 cM (115,021,578 - 119,197,977) which covers the majority of the shared segment that my dad has with you.
    Very cool, thanks for checking!

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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saetro View Post
    Edema is often associated with people who have heart health problems - with the heart pumping more feebly.
    Modern treatment may include diuretics to get rid of excess liquid.

    I seem to recall some characters in literature looking puffy - "dropsical" - not long before they died of heart attack.
    Many people used to be said to have died of dropsy, (on death certificates as well as by ordinary persons) but this was just a symptom of the underlying condition.
    My family suffered in older generations with “bad Legs” I.e swelling which was I am sure a symptom of heart disease coupled with running a shop which meant standing all day. The onset was late 60s to 70s in age terms, not in mid 40s.
    Image “Westray wifie” replica of Neolithic figurine Hidden Content
    Out of 64 pre 1800 births 45% Cheshire, 1% Irish (or Scottish), 25% south Derbyshire, 13% Burton on Trent area (where 4 counties within 10 miles), 7% Shropshire, 1% Staffs, 8% Lancs. So far all British Isles despite what some testing companies say.

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  5. #33
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    You need to know too that not all baptisms were entered into the records, since the fee was higher for that. Often poor families stretched to the first child but for others, especially girls, they may have only paid the lower fee to be entered into the church. So not finding the right sibling does not mean he was not of that family (very useful to spot a birth gap though).
    I have been lucky with this in having a DNA verification of what was really just a guess.
    Image “Westray wifie” replica of Neolithic figurine Hidden Content
    Out of 64 pre 1800 births 45% Cheshire, 1% Irish (or Scottish), 25% south Derbyshire, 13% Burton on Trent area (where 4 counties within 10 miles), 7% Shropshire, 1% Staffs, 8% Lancs. So far all British Isles despite what some testing companies say.

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     BackToTheForests (03-15-2019),  jdean (03-15-2019)

  7. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judith View Post
    You need to know too that not all baptisms were entered into the records, since the fee was higher for that. Often poor families stretched to the first child but for others, especially girls, they may have only paid the lower fee to be entered into the church. So not finding the right sibling does not mean he was not of that family (very useful to spot a birth gap though).
    I have been lucky with this in having a DNA verification of what was really just a guess.
    Wow, I've suspected this to be a possibility with some missing English baptisms (I've already come to accept it as fact with my Irish family) but I had no idea about the fees, thank you! Now, if I'm correct that Thomas and Josephs father, John, married Hannah Dagley 1800 at All Saints Alrewas (a burial record for a Hannah Saunders shows 1779-1815 Kings Bromley, I found a Hannah Dagley in 1781 at Alrewas), Joseph was baptized September 1801 in Kings Bromley, Thomas in August 1803, that leaves approximately 14 months in between for a possible birth for John. I've looked for records with just his mothers name (in case he was born a bit before their wedding) but no luck there. I'm utilizing Ancestry, Find my Past, and FamilySearch for everything but that won't help if there's simply no record. I've been sneaky and put possible parents into my tree on MyHeritage, then cross reference with smart matches, but so far have had no DNA connection to anyone (I've also noticed that many people have uploaded trees but not DNA). I am waiting for my AncestryDNA results so maybe that will hold the key.

    I think with all of the information that I do have, John is definitely related to Joseph (1801), Thomas (1803), and William (1780). There is another sibling, Mary Saunders (1788 Kings bromley, married a John Green in 1806) living next door to William in 1841. Her baptism record shows her parents as John and Elizabeth, so yet another probable sibling. It seems like they were very much clustered together. At this point, and if you think I'm making too many leaps please call me out, I'm leaning more towards the possibility of John being a father to Joseph and Thomas, and a brother to William and Mary, that Johns age was not incorrect on his parish burial and he was married twice.

    Also, your comment above about dropsical would lend a bit of credence to the idea that John was an older man at the time of his death.

    Thanks again!
    Last edited by BackToTheForests; 03-15-2019 at 07:25 PM.

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  9. #35
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    Hi again,
    I make notes on my tree as to how many leaps of faith are involved, firstly so that I recall the next time around and I do not tut at myself. Also so that it is public and if someone copies it then they do so knowing it to have several guesses involved. Some trees (esp Ancestry) are totally undocumented but still correct since very good work was done on another platform, and others have a number of documents but are “copying of other trees and hints” without checking consistency.
    The 1800 barrier is the big one, the census is running out of help, and the population is relatively high with lots of name clusters, and at that time they were very mobile since they had to be.
    Image “Westray wifie” replica of Neolithic figurine Hidden Content
    Out of 64 pre 1800 births 45% Cheshire, 1% Irish (or Scottish), 25% south Derbyshire, 13% Burton on Trent area (where 4 counties within 10 miles), 7% Shropshire, 1% Staffs, 8% Lancs. So far all British Isles despite what some testing companies say.

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     BackToTheForests (03-16-2019),  jdean (03-16-2019),  msmarjoribanks (03-16-2019)

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judith View Post
    Hi again,
    I make notes on my tree as to how many leaps of faith are involved, firstly so that I recall the next time around and I do not tut at myself. Also so that it is public and if someone copies it then they do so knowing it to have several guesses involved. Some trees (esp Ancestry) are totally undocumented but still correct since very good work was done on another platform, and others have a number of documents but are “copying of other trees and hints” without checking consistency.
    The 1800 barrier is the big one, the census is running out of help, and the population is relatively high with lots of name clusters, and at that time they were very mobile since they had to be.
    I have quite a large tree with most of the early (16th, 17th c) entries constructed from land transactions and the odd will, however there are a few 'leaps of faith' which like you I make sure I note. An interesting branch ended up in London in the 18th C., now that is proving to be a challenge : )
    Last edited by jdean; 03-16-2019 at 11:52 AM.

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  13. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judith View Post
    Hi again,
    I make notes on my tree as to how many leaps of faith are involved, firstly so that I recall the next time around and I do not tut at myself. Also so that it is public and if someone copies it then they do so knowing it to have several guesses involved. Some trees (esp Ancestry) are totally undocumented but still correct since very good work was done on another platform, and others have a number of documents but are “copying of other trees and hints” without checking consistency.
    The 1800 barrier is the big one, the census is running out of help, and the population is relatively high with lots of name clusters, and at that time they were very mobile since they had to be.
    I'm always so hesitant to add anything to this part of my tree, I've been working on it for almost three years (edited: had to look at the date of my first DNA test, wow time flies) and made just about every rookie mistake possible in that first six months, I've even gone so far as to hunt down all of my old trees and delete them while making my current tree private so I don't confuse anyone while working out theories. When I first began I thought the public trees were a Godsend, "Oh, you've traced us back to Alan Fitz Flaad?! Incredible, I must add that!", now I avoid them like the plague. Probably the same story as most new genealogists. I will make sure to start using the "notes" feature, I've been using dedicated notebooks for each line I'm researching but my handwriting is ridiculously bad so I think I'll make the jump to digital. Thank you.

    The 1800's are a rough time to get stuck in, I've heard that there are 1800, 1810, 1820, and 1830 census' in England but I have no idea how to access them (if they do exist) but maybe it will finally give me the ultimate excuse to have a visit.

    I am, for once, very comfortable and pleased with the direction things have gone with John. After all of the time researching I finally found something that makes sense, fits, and even has a paper trail, so I'm going to mark it up in a new private tree and wait for my AncestryDNA results to see if I have any matches. A crude solution, I suppose, but I feel as though it will be the only way to know for sure, even if it takes years.
    Last edited by BackToTheForests; 03-16-2019 at 03:43 PM.

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  15. #38
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    Small update: I've had my AncestryDNA results back for just shy of a week now and no connection straight to John at this time. I've got a new connection from my great grandfathers brother, George, who seems to have gone to Canada, but this match hasn't taken their tree any further than that. I've also noticed that AncestryDNA has a much different cM count when comparing the same cousins across platforms, it's quite confusing for me but I'm getting the hang of it, it just makes matches look more distant than they actually are (in most of the cousins I've been able to trace to a common ancestor, at least). I'm hoping that something new will pop soon but I don't have many, if any at all, Saunders matches in the UK so my best bet may be cross referencing overseas matches from other platforms with Ancestry's public trees. If anyone has any other ideas I'd love to hear them!
    Y DNA E-V13>Z5018>S2979>Z16659>S2972* John Saunders unknown birthdate, died 1840 in Kings Bromley, Staffordshire, England.
    MtDNA U5a2c3a Betty Hallissy b.1801 Passage West, Cork, Ireland

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