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Thread: African sailors aboard Henry VIIIís warship reveal hidden diversity of Tudor England

  1. #1
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    African sailors aboard Henry VIIIís warship reveal hidden diversity of Tudor England

    New evidence has revealed Heny VIIIís famous warship was a true melting pot, including sailors from mainland Europe and possibly as far afield as North Africa.

    The findings, based on skeletons salvaged from the wreck of the Mary Rose, are the latest to reveal the multicultural nature of Tudor England.

    Analysis of eight sailors who died fighting the French reveals two came from the Mediterranean, while another two could trace their origins to Africa.



    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/s...-a8822546.html
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    This looks like another bit of PC nonsense, the way it has been framed. The one place you would expect foreigners to be found in any country would be in and around ports. Multicultural is not the same as ethnic diversity and a few sailors on a warship is not indicative of the wider population whatsoever, nor of multiculturalism. Who is to say what culture these men followed, irrespective of their ethnicity?

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    I very much doubt they are trying to say Tudor England was as multicultural as England is today .
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    Agreed, but neither is it remarkable and it is the journalist who mentions multiculturalism, which illustrates the prism through which the author is looking. On that basis you'd be hard pushed not to define most places as multicultural if it only takes a couple of sailors on a ship to define it.

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    I agree it would depend on what point you declare that a country is multicultural .
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    "As far afield as North Africa"
    Wow, that's really far (sarcasm).

    Beside the ridiculous claim Tudor England was multicultural because a couple of soldiers and mercenaries were not local, they 're trying to link these North Africans with "black history" in the British isles looooooool
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    I don't buy it. England was never Multicultural through history. I find it sad how certain folks on the left are trying to push that narrative, essentially wiping away true English history

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    So, are the results published? I haven't found a link to scientific paper in the article.

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    Can't say this surprises me, coming from the Independent. The idea of conflating multiple ethnicities with multiculturalism is just asinine. Its common for the mainstream left to try and pull stupid stunts like this. Even where it mentions the presence of many Africans in Tudor London, the local culture wasn't influenced at all, there was no multiculturalism, just multiple ethnicities. It's a shame as it detracts from the findings of the article, which are actually quite interesting.

    Also, I saw this in the article:



    Isn't the idea of an Out-of-Africa origin pretty much already scientific consensus? Why do people need to hammer this point home? It's almost like people on the mainstream left have an agenda of some sorts......almost.

    Another article from the same author: https://www.independent.co.uk/enviro...-a8818146.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam A View Post
    I don't buy it. England was never Multicultural through history. I find it sad how certain folks on the left are trying to push that narrative, essentially wiping away true English history
    Well yeah, it was. But not in the way we mean today.
    There were successive waves of invaders from Roman times through to the Normans.
    Romans, Irish (we keep forgetting they invaded western British shores at the end of Roman times), Angles/Saxons/Jutes, Danish Vikings on one side and Norse on the other followed by Norman French - all brought different customs and language.
    You may think, for example, the Irish invasion was tiny - but its cultural effect was large.
    They introduced Christianity to much of Britain. (Not to mention parts of Germany and some of Scandinavia.)

    Changes were not sudden and overwhelming, so different cultures and practices existed side-by-side for quite some time.
    Histories may say "so and so came and everybody changed overnight", but if there are accounts of people in the area later, they usually say things like - "away from the towns people still keep to the old ways".
    Or the newcomers were largely a ruler overclass who long resisted mixing with and marrying those they had conquered.
    It's not "multicultural" in the sense of people appreciating and accepting different ways of thought within one place.
    But it is in the sense of different cultures existing on the same island at the same time.
    And rubbing up against each other in some places.

    Later, there were differences within what had become relatively homogeneous - on the basis of religious thought and belief.
    Without even getting to class divisions - that for much of history amounted to parallel cultures.

    You don't have to have colour involved to be multicultural.
    I grew up in an all-European descent household of two cultures from different parts of Europe.
    With two languages spoken, two different flavours of religion, city ideas versus country ideas, different food preferences and recipes and so on.
    That was multicultural too.

    I also hate misrepresentation of what happened in history.
    I spent 90 minutes last night informing people of the truth existing behind some TV ads and sensationalist reporting.
    Entirely different topic. Same passion.
    Last edited by Saetro; 03-14-2019 at 08:24 PM.

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