Page 2 of 28 FirstFirst 123412 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 271

Thread: West Mediterranean Paper focus on Iranian and Steppe ancestry

  1. #11
    Gold Member Class
    Posts
    1,736
    Sex
    Location
    UK
    Nationality
    Welsh
    Y-DNA
    R-DF49
    mtDNA
    J1c2e

    United Kingdom European Union
    DOI link isn't working for me at the mo, might try the other place : )

    Going to take a rain check on their suggestion these DF27 samples may have Iberian origins until more is know about them.

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to jdean For This Useful Post:

     Ruderico (03-21-2019)

  3. #12
    Registered Users
    Posts
    77
    Sex
    Nationality
    Italian

    Republic of Venice
    I'm struggling hard to the read that PCA, projection bias or what? The position of the Sicily BB it's almost in Armenian territory, If it's the same sample that we already had, I don't feel it's right...

  4. #13
    The Iranian ancestry is pre-Phoenician. In Spain there was a seal with distinct Mitanni characteristics, from the Bronze Age, found at Velez-Malaga. The name Tartessos also has the typical -assa- south Anatolian suffix. After the Bronze Age collapse the Phoenicians seem to have taken over the old North Syrian and Hurrian trade routes to the west.

  5. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to talljimmy0 For This Useful Post:

     parasar (03-21-2019),  persian (03-21-2019)

  6. #14
    Registered Users
    Posts
    290
    Y-DNA
    I-Y16419
    mtDNA
    T2e1

    Quote Originally Posted by Agamemnon View Post
    The Phoenician individual from Ibiza is quite intriguing:

    231 During the Iron Age, Phoenician colonies were established in the Balearic islands. The Ibiza
    Phoenician individual published in 50 232 is not consistent with forming a clade with any of the Bronze
    233 Age individuals from the Balaeric islands newly reported in this study, and indeed we find that she
    234 can not be modeled even with our least parsimonious model of 4 distal sources. However, when we
    235 add in a North African source of ancestry, we can fit her as a two-way mix of 18.8 ± 7.9%
    236 Anatolia_Neolithic and 81.2 ± 7.9% Morocco_LN ancestry (p=0.141) (Supplementary Materials). We
    237 also can fit the Ibiza Phoenician as two-way mixture of a variety of groups closer to her in time one
    238 of which is always Morocco_LN. While several of these models include a Balaeric Island Bronze Age
    239 source, we cannot rule out the possibility that the Ibiza Phoenician individual has no local Balaeric
    240 ancestry at all. Specifically, we find that we can fit her with models that do not have a Balaeric
    241 source and that instead have Balaeric Bronze Age individuals in the outgroups (e.g. (e.g. 17.1 ±
    242 3.5% France_Bell_Beaker and 82.9 ± 3.5% Morocco_LN, p=0.869) (Supplementary Table 11).


    is this the same Phoenician in the PCA and ADMIXTURE ? doesn't seem very North African to me, rather East Med with obvious Iran_N ancestry.
    Corruption of the soul is a fate that befalls the weak

  7. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to IronHorse For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (03-21-2019),  Ariel90 (03-21-2019),  ffoucart (03-22-2019),  Jessie (03-22-2019),  Power77 (03-21-2019),  Psynome (03-22-2019),  Ruderico (03-21-2019)

  8. #15
    Registered Users
    Posts
    207
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Albanian
    Y-DNA
    J1-ZS241
    mtDNA
    T1a1l

    Albania Kosovo Montenegro
    Quote Originally Posted by Principe View Post
    It is on the page, it took me time to find it I think the L283 will be one of those pre Z615 branches.

    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1...ntary-material
    I think so as well, those branches have clear associations with Sardinia. The paper seems to suggest that L283 in Bronze Age Sardinia came from somewhere in the Mediterranean, probably Italy or the Balkans based on material evidence. The sample seems to be lacking in Steppe input so perhaps L283 carriers had a very small impact originally, that is if the Steppe-L283 connection is true. What culture would you link these L283 migrants(assuming they migrated to Sardinia during the Bronze Age) to?
    Last edited by Kelmendasi; 03-21-2019 at 05:10 PM.
    Ftdna MyOrigins 2.0: 100% SE European

    23andme: 100% Balkan

    Geneplaza K25: 100% Greek-Albanian

    Ydna: J1>P58>YSC234>ZS241

    Maternal Ydna: E-V13>CTS5856*

    Mtdna: T1a1l

  9. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Kelmendasi For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (03-21-2019),  ernekar (03-21-2019),  Power77 (03-21-2019),  Principe (03-21-2019),  slievenamon (03-23-2019)

  10. #16
    Gold Member Class
    Posts
    3,783
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Jewish & British
    Y-DNA
    J1-YSC234 (Z18271+)
    mtDNA
    J1c5

    Israel Israel Jerusalem United Kingdom England Scotland Isle of Man
    Quote Originally Posted by Ariel90 View Post
    I'm struggling hard to the read that PCA, projection bias or what? The position of the Sicily BB it's almost in Armenian territory, If it's the same sample that we already had, I don't feel it's right...
    It does look like the PCA suffers from projection bias.
    ᾽Άλλο δέ τοι ἐρέω, σὺ δ᾽ ἐνὶ φρεσὶ βάλλεο σῇσιν:
    κρύβδην, μηδ᾽ ἀναφανδά, φίλην ἐς πατρίδα γαῖαν
    νῆα κατισχέμεναι: ἐπεὶ οὐκέτι πιστὰ γυναιξίν.


    -Αγαμέμνων; H Οδύσσεια, Ραψωδία λ

  11. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Agamemnon For This Useful Post:

     Power77 (03-21-2019),  Principe (03-21-2019)

  12. #17
    Registered Users
    Posts
    836
    Sex
    Location
    Canada
    Ethnicity
    Italian
    Y-DNA
    J-Y15222
    mtDNA
    U5a2b5

    Italy Italy Sicily Italy Two Sicilies Vatican Star of David
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelmendasi View Post
    I think so as well, those branches have clear associations with Sardinia. The paper seems to suggest that L283 in Bronze Age Sardinia came from somewhere in the Mediterranean, probably Italy or the Balkans based on material evidence. The sample seems to be lacking in Steppe input so perhaps L283 carriers had a very small impact originally, that is if the Steppe-L283 connection is true. What culture would you link these L283 migrants(assuming they migrated to Sardinia during the Bronze Age) to?
    I am not sure tbh, and there is at least a definite Steppe-L283 connection with the Z597 branch essentially adna proved this, the branches that could be potentially be found the ones were thinking pre Z615 branches probably represent a branch that travelled to the Balkans either via Steppe or directly from the Caucausus, I would think candidates would be any cultures on the Eastern Italian-Balkan border to have supplied this pre Z615 branch into Sardinia.
    My Y Line: J2a-L210>Z489>Z482>Y15222

    My Maternal Y: R1b-U152>Z36>Y156527

    Other Y lines: 3x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: J2a-S25258>SK1336, 5x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: E-V13>A7135, 6x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: J1-Z2331>L829

  13. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Principe For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (03-21-2019),  Kelmendasi (03-21-2019),  Power77 (03-21-2019)

  14. #18
    Registered Users
    Posts
    268
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelmendasi View Post
    I think so as well, those branches have clear associations with Sardinia. The paper seems to suggest that L283 in Bronze Age Sardinia came from somewhere in the Mediterranean, probably Italy or the Balkans based on material evidence. The sample seems to be lacking in Steppe input so perhaps L283 carriers had a very small impact originally, that is if the Steppe-L283 connection is true. What culture would you link these L283 migrants(assuming they migrated to Sardinia during the Bronze Age) to?
    Part of Villanovan/proto-etruscan culture had its root in urnfield.
    And connections between Nuragic civilization and Etruscans are well-documented.
    Maybe that could be a route for J2b-L283 to sardinia, Urnfield-->Villanova-->Nuragic.
    In this scenario the Croatian J2b-L283 already branched off from the J2b-L283 in central european Tumulus culture, while the Nuragic one only went south during the Urnfield period.

    A mediterranean route from the balkans or Iberia can't be ruled out yet either, although J2b-L283 seems most likely to have spread through the continental route, and not a mediterranean one.
    Last edited by ernekar; 03-21-2019 at 05:34 PM.

  15. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to ernekar For This Useful Post:

     Jessie (03-22-2019),  Johane Derite (03-21-2019),  Kelmendasi (03-21-2019),  Power77 (03-21-2019),  Trojet (03-21-2019)

  16. #19
    Registered Users
    Posts
    365
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Albanian
    Y-DNA
    J-L283

    Albania United States of America Kosovo European Union
    Does anybody know which version of the ISOGG tree they used. I see a few R1b's from EBA Sicily, but they didn't specify any SNPs.

  17. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Trojet For This Useful Post:

     Johane Derite (03-21-2019),  Kelmendasi (03-21-2019),  Power77 (03-21-2019)

  18. #20
    Registered Users
    Posts
    420
    Sex
    Location
    Da Great White North
    Ethnicity
    Jewish (Ashk.+Seph.)
    Nationality
    Israeli and Canuck
    Y-DNA
    E-M44
    mtDNA
    H1

    Canada Israel Israel Jerusalem Spain Lithuania United States of America
    So Nuragic Sardinians were R1b-V88, J2b2-L283, and/or G2a? It seems to me that J2b2-L283 might not be Indo-European after all.

    PS: What is the Phoenician’s Y-DNA haplogroup?
    “The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.”
    ― Socrates


    “The unexamined life is not worth living.”
    ― Socrates

    “There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
    ― Socrates

  19. The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to Power77 For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (03-21-2019),  alexfritz (03-21-2019),  artemv (03-23-2019),  ffoucart (03-22-2019),  Jessie (03-22-2019),  Michał (03-21-2019),  Psynome (03-22-2019),  T101 (03-24-2019),  traject (03-21-2019)

Page 2 of 28 FirstFirst 123412 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 6
    Last Post: 05-30-2018, 10:08 PM
  2. Replies: 6
    Last Post: 05-18-2018, 09:23 PM
  3. Do I have Iranian Ancestry?
    By Pad-i Shah e Hind in forum Persian
    Replies: 100
    Last Post: 03-08-2018, 01:07 AM
  4. Need help understanding my Levantine/Mediterranean ancestry
    By Rach_27 in forum Autosomal (auDNA)
    Replies: 48
    Last Post: 06-28-2017, 01:36 AM
  5. Replies: 16
    Last Post: 06-16-2017, 11:34 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •