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Thread: E-V13 entered Greece with Illyrians and Dorian invasions

  1. #1361
    Quote Originally Posted by ahsap View Post
    What do you call us again in your region, ok right Aromanians is what they using over there. So here I'm not making any actual points that make sense, I add facts to discussion that people can read or not read make their own conclusion. But they are facts. And not random claims where is the line of the Balkans drawn is it in Serbia or is not in Serbia or is it in Slovenia? This chatter I don't do it, is not fun for me that stuff or relevant for me, that is your games. I just post facts if people want to understand origin of I2 Albanians.

    "Elbasan

    180 Aromanian families residing in the St. Nicholas neighbourhood on the edge of town. At the beginning of the 20th century it was estimated that 15,000 people lived in Elbasan.

    The site seems to have been abandoned until the Ottoman army built a military camp there, followed by urban reconstruction under Sultan Mehmet II in 1466. Mehmet constructed a massive four-sided castle with a deep moat and three gates. He named it Elbasan, meaning 'conquered country' in Turkish. He had built the castle in order to fight Skanderbeg, due to an ongoing conflict between the Ottomans and Albanians.

    The city survived attacks by the Bulgars and Ostrogoths and was mentioned in the work of Procopius of Cæsarea.

    Korce

    When the nearby town of İskopol (Moscopole or Moschopolis or Voskopojë) was destroyed by Ali Pasha's men in 1789, some of its commerce shifted to Görice (Korçë) and Arnavud Belgrad (Berat). Korçë grew as part of its population came from nearby Moscopole. Greek sources (Liakos and Aravandinos) have noted of the Korçë Aromanian populations' origins that in addition to many being from Moscopole, others settled during a time of calm and were from the village of Shalës, Kolonjë and established the market district of Korçë known as Varosh. Aromanians from the Arvanitovlach subgroup that in the early 19th century arrived to the Korçë area played a significant role in establishing the Korçë Christian urban class. In Psalidas' work Geography from 1830 noted that in the district of Varosh in Korçë, 100 Aromanian families lived there.

    Berat

    A Greek school was operating in the city already from 1835. In the late Ottoman period, the population of Berat was 10–15,000 inhabitants with Orthodox Christians numbering some 5,000 people of whom 3,000 spoke the Aromanian language and the rest the Albanian language.

    In the modern period, a Romani community numbering 200-300 lives in Berat and its outskirts whereas others in a few nearby villages, at times living in difficult economic circumstances with some seasonally migrating to Greece for work. There are Greek and Aromanian speakers in the city and in settlements close by.

    Voskopoje

    (Albanian: Voskopojë; Aromanian: Moscopole, Moscopoli, Muscopuli, Voscopole; Greek: Μοσχόπολη or Βοσκόπολη; Turkish: İskopol or Oskopol[1]) is a village in Korçë County in southeastern Albania. During the 18th century, it was the cultural and commercial center of the Aromanians.

    Historians have attributed the decline of the city to a series of raids by Muslim Albanian bandits. Moscopole was initially attacked and almost destroyed by those groups in 1769 following the participation of the residents in the preparations for a Greek revolt supported by the Russian Empire. Its destruction culminated with the abandoning and destruction of 1788. Moscopole, once a prosperous city, was reduced to a small village by Ali Pasha. According to another opinion, the city's decline was mainly due to the relocation of the trade routes in central and eastern Europe following these raids. Today Moscopole, known as Voskopojë, is a small mountain village, and along with a few other local settlements is considered a holy place by local Orthodox Christians. It was one of the original homelands of the Aromanian diaspora."


    Kelmendasi is speaking false conclusions for my haplogroup I2 that is why I post relevant facts.
    This is completely different topic from the thread. You might want to fill in with dna results first and than built a more factual narrative. What I am saying below applies more to Aromanians in Albania. DNA points to a mixture of Illyrian/west balkan local lines with Celts, gothic and than later some slavic/only I dinaric not R1a additions. Different aromanian settlements have different % of these haplos in albania. So data points to local west balkan haplos partially or fully Latinized during a few centuries in the wester Danubian Roman front that the romans build after 2 century AD against barbarians. After the slavic migration to the west balkans possibly some of this latinized population reverted back to the local/balkan identity and some remained latinized/Aromanians and continue to this day.
    Regarding Voskopoje its decline started much earlier economically than the "raids" that you mentioned and the fact that you present are also not fully correct and tainted/biased. The essence of the confilict was not orthodox vs muslim. That is taking the tenth layer/symbol and putting it as the most important in the conversation.
    The current majority of the population today in Voskopoja is Vlach but that does not mean that 200 years ago that was the case for the town people that left. DNA tests from families in Albania that claim origin from Voskopoja, when they left it 200 years ago, now living in Korca and Berat as you mentioned yourself, indicate a different population from the ones that are today in Voskopoja. So you are taking current population/identity and extrapolating it back 100% and data don't support that. Orthodox continuity does not automatically imply "ethnic" continuity. There are plenty of albanian orthodox that have never considered themselves Aromanian. Different from other Balkan nations religion is not the defining feature of Albanians. So picking one of these religions and running with a narrative on that is very superficial to understanding history. So in short I am suggesting you read, collect and link data more carefully. And find the right thread to articulate it. best.
    Last edited by gjergj; 03-14-2021 at 09:04 AM.

  2. #1362
    Registered Users
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    Greece Byzantine Empire Empire of Trebizond
    Quote Originally Posted by ahsap View Post

    Kelmendasi is speaking false conclusions for my haplogroup I2 that is why I post relevant facts.
    You are in denial regarding the origins of your Y haplogroup.
    distance: 1.656775
    Ancient Greece/Balkans: 48.8
    Early Slavic: 24.5
    RUS_Maykop_Novosvobodnaya: 12.7
    Levant_Megiddo_IA: 10.2
    IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2: 1.7
    MAR_Taforalt: 0.8
    CHN_Yellow_River_LBIA: 0.7
    Yoruba: 0.6

  3. The Following User Says Thank You to XXD For This Useful Post:

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  4. #1363
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    EV13>Z5018>FGC33625
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    Albania Kosovo
    This is already outdated, but this is map distribution of E-V13>Z5018 in Albania. If Messapic regions are also Z5018 heavy, maybe they have a role in spread of Early-Proto-Albanian


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  6. #1364
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    E-V13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    This is already outdated, but this is map distribution of E-V13>Z5018 in Albania. If Messapic regions are also Z5018 heavy, maybe they have a role in spread of Early-Proto-Albanian

    It coincides with the map Riverman created for the initial origin of E-V13



    The encircled red region is approximately Beskid mountains, which many linguists believe is a remnant word from an ancient Albanoid language.



    Albanoid-like language might have been one of many languages spoken there during Bronze Age.
    Last edited by Hawk; 03-14-2021 at 11:40 AM.

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  8. #1365
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    This is already outdated, but this is map distribution of E-V13>Z5018 in Albania. If Messapic regions are also Z5018 heavy, maybe they have a role in spread of Early-Proto-Albanian

    These are the birthplaces of my straightforward paternal ancestors for the past 200 years and our population approximation.
    It completely overlaps the regions mentioned in the topics

    dgdrgd.PNG
    dfdrgdr.JPG

  9. #1366
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    The thread is closed. Despite numerous warnings and reminders personal attacks and violations of the ToS continued, so we had no other choice than to close this thread.
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