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Thread: E-V13 entered Greece with Illyrians and Dorian invasions

  1. #1351
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    Earlier P192-1 E-Z1919 (per some confirmed E-V13+) from Svilengrad, upcoming Kapitan Andreevo E-L618 find and Kapitan Andreevo E-V13 find all belong to Babadag-Pšeničevo culture.

    Because 3 out of 3 Babadag-Pšeničevo finds from two sites were E-V13, due to close relations of this culture with the Insula-Banului and the Basarabi cultures it can be predicted that these culture also carried mostly E-V13. Moldavian Saharna-Solonceni is said also to descend of Babadag movement.

    These cultures represent the bulk of Geto-Dacians and significant percentage of Thracians.

    Babadag most likely developed out of Insula-Banului while Insula-Banului seem to have had two components: Gava and Žuto Brdo.

  2. #1352
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huban View Post
    Because 3 out of 3 Babadag-Pšeničevo finds from two sites were E-V13, due to close relations of this culture with the Insula-Banului and the Basarabi cultures it can be predicted that these culture also carried mostly E-V13. Moldavian Saharna-Solonceni is said also to descend of Babadag movement.

    These cultures represent the bulk of Geto-Dacians and significant percentage of Thracians.
    This is the EIA event that caused massive replacement of Y-DNA lineages in historical Daco-Thracian areas by the E-V13.

  3. #1353
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahsap View Post
    Your information sharing is not any reality.

    Attachment 43860

    Are you aware that your lying on purpose?
    Those samples are from the site and settlement of Mokrin in north-eastern Serbia on the border with Romania. Personally I would not classify that area as a part of the western Balkans despite the fact that a good amount of Serbia is located within that geographical area. It is central or even eastern Balkan.

    However, some of the recently discovered samples from the Neolithic Croatian site of Potočani did turn out to be I2-M438+ (specifically I2a-Y4213+) , though of course they are completely unrelated to the Illyrians and subsequent cultures of the area.
    Last edited by Kelmendasi; 03-14-2021 at 01:43 AM.
    Ydna: J1>P58>YSC234>ZS241>BY32817 (Y179831)

    Maternal Ydna: E-V13>CTS1273*

    Mtdna: T1a1l

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  5. #1354
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    Troy VIIa stood for a century before it was destroyed around 1180 BC.[5] Its destruction has been attributed to enemy attack, though the culprits could not have been a confederation of Mycenaean kings whose own cities had already been destroyed.[5] Partial human remains were found in houses and in the streets, and near the north-western ramparts a human skeleton with skull injuries and a broken jawbone. Three bronze arrowheads were found, two in the fort and one in the city.
    Thracia, 1972
    if the invaders of Troy VIIb originated from or left of Thrace some time in the 12th century to invade Troy, it is more plausible to identify these people as Thracians rather than as Phrygians originating in Central Europe , as proposed by Gimbutas. In addition to the material already mentioned , there exists other archaeological material in Bulgaria which is very closely parallel to the material from Troy . There is the vase from Gabarevo which is so similar to one from Troy that it could have been made by the same potter. " . There is also the Pšeničevo complex of southern Bulgaria which is related to the Babadag group of Rumania . The pottery from Pšeničevo has not yet been fully published , yet there are enough fragments with decorations and knobs to lend support to the idea of interconnection. The motif of incised circles connected by their tangents is very characteristic of this material and exists in other parts of the Balkans as well
    .

    Pšeničevo people also in newer finds do show Troy VIIb material.

    E-V13 drop by to say hello.
    Last edited by Huban; 03-14-2021 at 02:25 AM.

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  7. #1355
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahsap View Post
    Elbasan, Korce, Berat, Voskopoje all Vlach-Bulgarian settled areas.
    Not really. Anyways, what has this got to do with the Illyrians or the topic of the thread?
    Ydna: J1>P58>YSC234>ZS241>BY32817 (Y179831)

    Maternal Ydna: E-V13>CTS1273*

    Mtdna: T1a1l

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  9. #1356
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahsap View Post
    In August 2010 archaeologists discovered two Illyrian graves near the walls of the castle of Elbasan.
    What is your point?
    Ydna: J1>P58>YSC234>ZS241>BY32817 (Y179831)

    Maternal Ydna: E-V13>CTS1273*

    Mtdna: T1a1l

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  11. #1357
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahsap View Post
    Regarding? I made multiple fact statements, you didn't digest them properly or what you asking?
    I simply do not see the correlation between your claim that those regions were settled by “Vlach-Bulgars” and the discovery of Illyrian burial sites near Elbasan. You are yet to make an actual point that makes sense.
    Ydna: J1>P58>YSC234>ZS241>BY32817 (Y179831)

    Maternal Ydna: E-V13>CTS1273*

    Mtdna: T1a1l

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  13. #1358
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huban View Post
    Because 3 out of 3 Babadag-Pšeničevo finds from two sites were E-V13, due to close relations of this culture with the Insula-Banului and the Basarabi cultures it can be predicted that these culture also carried mostly E-V13. Moldavian Saharna-Solonceni is said also to descend of Babadag movement.
    Which EIA/LBA E-V13 SNP corresponds well to these? Without doubt CTS9320.

    E-Y84585 have probably a cousin in Bulgaria.

    There are two E-CTS9320* clades shared by Romanians and Bulgarians. There is an E-CTS9320* Greek very near Svilengrad. Ossetian E-CTS9320*.

    Interestingly most of E-CTS9320* clades do not occur in Westerners. It is common that Westerners would have various other basal clades due to their level of testing.

    The only exception is E-Z16988 which is heavy in the Western Balkans, can be explained in various ways, including Basarabi influence on Glasinac, Gava related etc.

    It is blatantly clear E-V13 is related to this complex, the question is what are the repercussions for the entire V13. Did these older cultures such as Vatina, Paraćin, Mediana etc. sport V13?

    Mediana, considered as proto-Dardanian, non-Illyrian, non-Thracian in its phase III received migrants from Pšeničevo. They received some Gava influx in phase 2. This is when they could have learned Thracian, only to learn Illyrian centuries later after Glasinac-Mati expansion (especially the Brnjica branch).

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  15. #1359
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huban View Post
    Pšeničevo people also in newer finds do show Troy VIIb material.
    Garašanin writing about Mediana group noted similarities in pottery with Troy VIIb. And he raised the question of Trojan Dardanians. But also he emphasized that this pottery is actually Pšeničevo pottery related to Insula Banului, befitting more Moesians, also mentioned there.

    It could be that this is a Moesian link but that also some Mediana I people (non-Pšeničevo and non-Gava), probably original Dardanians also went with them so their name also appeared.

    Very interesting is to look at the genesis of Insula Banului, and whether in its genesis Gava or Girla-Mare played a determining role. This is a difference between young LBA/EIA Thracians, basically invaders who imposed their language in a relatively short period of time or older Thracians, thus making the these MBA cultures such as Mediana I, Paraćin, Vatin, Verbicioara also Thracian.

    I think option no.1 is more likely for now.

  16. #1360
    Quote Originally Posted by ahsap View Post
    So 10 Albanians are in the I2 project is that right. And I see 5 are undisclosed, 2 Elbasan, 2 Korce, 1 Berat.
    Here you can find the largest sample of albanians and the sub sample with I2. It include results from multiple companies not just FTDNA. some of them we have uploaded in Yfull as well.
    I2 Dinaric is about 7-8% of the population. But all points to arrival in the balkans in 6-7 AD with slavic migration.

    There is not much to dispute. All regional data points to this direction.

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