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Thread: E-V13 entered Greece with Illyrians and Dorian invasions

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny ola View Post
    The northern regions of Greece especially regions like Macedonia, Thrace and Northern Thessaly/Epirus were never part of the Mycenean culture. These regions were inhabit mostly by Thracian tribes.Greeks from Bronze Age and until the classical period have stayed pretty much the same. The later admixtures especially from Slavs-Vlachs and West Asians have to do mostly with Roman-Byzantium ages.Another possibility of the west Asian components could be also hellenization of locals from the west anatolian coast. The people there might have BA Anatolia shift, so its very likely intermarriages to gave a more east med vibe.
    Bithynia is named for the Thracian tribe of the Bithyni, ..............a permanent tribe in Anatolia , the only thracians in Anatolia

    Epirus and Thessaly are on opposite coasts..........

    Epirus, Epirote people ( 14 ancient tribes ) are mentioned as the only Pelasgian people alongside the Dorians by Roman historians .................clearly we have nationalistic propaganda by current nations in the area which say otherwise


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     The_Lyonnist (11-17-2020)

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    Quote Originally Posted by vettor View Post
    [B]
    Epirus, Epirote people ( 14 ancient tribes ) are mentioned as the only Pelasgian people alongside the Dorians by Roman historians .................clearly we have nationalistic propaganda by current nations in the area which say otherwise
    Can you please link or provide the reference for who says that. I wasn't able to find it in the book you linked, do you have a page number or something?

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     Greekscholar (06-12-2020)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    Can you please link or provide the reference for who says that. I wasn't able to find it in the book you linked, do you have a page number or something?
    I think northern Epirus was inhabit by illyrians.Correct me if i am wrong!!!

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     Greekscholar (06-12-2020)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorcelow View Post
    I agree with you that mainland Greece received ancestry from the Levant/Caucasus region that was lacking in the Mycenaean and Minoan samples, but I believe that your models are inflating the Slavic related ancestry by not including more northerly Balkan samples. We know that heavier amounts of steppe ancestry was lurking to the north of Greece and since geneflow in this part of Europe usually came from the north southward, I think steppe ancestry was continuing to trickle down into Greece after the Bronze Age to the point where the pre-Slavic migration inhabitants of Greece were Prenestini_O like. Prenestini_O contains a bit more steppe ancestry than the Mycenaeans and also shows subtle signs of ancestry from the near east.

    If I use Prenestini_O as a proxy for mainland Greece prior to the migration, we have this tight model, which fits well for most mainland Greece. There may have been multiple migrations to Greece from the Near East during different periods of time, but for the sake of keeping the model simple, I'm using modern Syrians as a proxy for any near eastern input that entered Greece, considering that these migrants may have been from the Greek speaking Antioch region:

    [1] "distance%=1.3114"

    Greek_Central_Macedonia

    ITA_Prenestini_tribe_IA_o,56
    HUN_Avar_Szolad,32.6
    Syrian,11.4
    I've scoured books several books on Bronze Age Greece, Dark Ages, Classical and Hellenistic era have read nothing to indicate West Asian or Levantine input into the mainland after the Bronze age. Where/when could this source have arrived? Are you suggesting Byzantine era input? Just curious.

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     Greekscholar (06-12-2020)

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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyC View Post
    I've scoured books several books on Bronze Age Greece, Dark Ages, Classical and Hellenistic era have read nothing to indicate West Asian or Levantine input into the mainland after the Bronze age. Where/when could this source have arrived? Are you suggesting Byzantine era input? Just curious.
    Theres no clear answer. It probably came from different sources over multiple periods of time. Probably some came during the Byzantine era.

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     Greekscholar (06-12-2020)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    Can you please link or provide the reference for who says that. I wasn't able to find it in the book you linked, do you have a page number or something?
    look it up.....see references

    Plutarch (1st-2nd centuries AD) : ‘Historians tell us that the first king of the Thesprotians and Molossians (Epirote tribes, there are 14 tribes that are epirote) came into Epirus with PELASGIANS’ (Life of Pyrrhus 1.1) . That the Epirotes (Molossians, Chaonians, Thesprotians etc.) were indeed Pelasgian can be seen from the following quotation: ‘Many have likewise asserted that the nations of Epirus are Pelasgic, because the dominions of the Pelasgi extended into Epitote lands’ (Strabo ‘Geography’ 5.2.4)


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     Michał (06-11-2020)

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    Probably you will find issues with my next statement but I will write it in case there are people which see things in a similar way. So, the thing is I'm starting to see Dorians as hellenized Illyrians.
    And of course, the hellenization would happen after the invasion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bane View Post
    Probably you will find issues with my next statement but I will write it in case there are people which see things in a similar way. So, the thing is I'm starting to see Dorians as hellenized Illyrians.
    And of course, the hellenization would happen after the invasion.
    You know that Dorians brought new customs,policies and pretty much a new dialect witch it wasn't exactly the same with the dialect of Achaeans-Mycaneans.The problem is,that during IA-Dark ages Greece faced a blackout.If Dorians are hellenized Illyrians then why they speak a different dialect from the already native-local Greek folks?
    Last edited by Johnny ola; 11-16-2020 at 10:25 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny ola View Post
    If Dorians are hellenized Illyrians then why they speak a different dialect from the already native-local Greek folks?
    I don't see that as a big problem. In East Germany there is significant number of people which are descendants of Slavs. At some point of history their ancestors were germanized and today they speak with a German dialect which is different from dialects in other parts of Germany.

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