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Thread: E-V13 entered Greece with Illyrians and Dorian invasions

  1. #591
    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny ola View Post
    Ancient Greek haplogroups?What are these haplogroups?And who told you that Epirus or Macedonia were not Greek.They belonged to the Doric/Northwest Greek spectrum.
    Well you seem to be talking so much about Hellenes you should know what those haplos are and their subclades more importantly. You can tell us.
    Regarding the "spectrum" you have two greek historians, Herodotus (the father of history) and Thucidities (the first modern historian). They both are very clear about Epir. Its not greek. Both in customs and language.
    And based on genetic, Y result, I have seen in south Albania it is not connected to greeks in the last 3-4000 years thus far. The greek minority in south albania/north Epir that has been tested is slavic mostly, 75%, and some geg albanias + a few goths that have helenized, so all post Roman/middle age period.
    So in short neither the haplos in that area nor ancient greek historians can suport a greek identity for Epir. May be dna of ancient remains might settle this. They have just started in south albania with ancient dna. We should get results may be this year for some of them.
    Last edited by gjergj; 02-14-2021 at 08:25 AM.

  2. #592
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    Quote Originally Posted by gjergj View Post
    Well you seem to be talking so much about Hellenes you should know what those haplos are and their subclades more importantly. You can tell us.
    Regarding the "spectrum" you have two greek historians, Herodotus (the father of history) and Thucidities (the first modern historian). They both are very clear about Epir. Its not greek. Both in customs and language.
    And based on genetic, Y result, I have seen in south Albania it is not connected to greeks in the last 3-4000 years thus far. The greek minority in south albania/north Epir that has been tested is slavic mostly, 75%, and some geg albanias + a few goths that have helenized, so all post Roman/middle age period.
    So in short neither the haplos in that area nor ancient greek historians can suport a greek identity for Epir. May be dna of ancient remains might settle this. They have just started in south albania with ancient dna. We should get results may be this year for some of them.
    Johnny ola is right, if you can deduce for us what might be Ancient Greek, Epirote, Illyrian Y-DNA or subclades within the same mutation would be good. I want to see the chronological reasoning behind your claims.

  3. #593
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    Quote Originally Posted by gjergj View Post
    Well you seem to be talking so much about Hellenes you should know what those haplos are and their subclades more importantly. You can tell us.
    Regarding the "spectrum" you have two greek historians, Herodotus (the father of history) and Thucidities (the first modern historian). They both are very clear about Epir. Its not greek. Both in customs and language.
    And based on genetic, Y result, I have seen in south Albania it is not connected to greeks in the last 3-4000 years thus far. The greek minority in south albania/north Epir that has been tested is slavic mostly, 75%, and some geg albanias + a few goths that have helenized, so all post Roman/middle age period.
    So in short neither the haplos in that area nor ancient greek historians can suport a greek identity for Epir. May be dna of ancient remains might settle this. They have just started in south albania with ancient dna. We should get results may be this year for some of them.
    I think you miss your morning Medication

    We have Not haplogroups from Ancient Greeks and Ancient Illyrians/Thracians especially For Iron Age period. So What you saying Is random guessworking stuff..

  4. #594
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    As far as I know, Maniots which are said to be from the laconian region/ near it, had blood feuding as an important part of their culture. There is no chance afaik that they are influenced by arvanites in this.

    Secondly, blood feuding in Italy (vendetta) was also more concentrated in southern parts that had higher ancient balkan migration.

    Blood feuding is a phenomena that arises out of a specific cultural context and background. Maybe the blood feuding in Albanians, Maniotes, and Italians has an older common cultural origin (religious, ethical views on "honour" etc).
    Cretans have it as Well. Sardinians, Sicilians used to have it. Maybe Anatolian N habit

  5. #595
    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny ola View Post
    I think you miss your morning Medication

    We have Not haplogroups from Ancient Greeks and Ancient Illyrians/Thracians especially For Iron Age period. So What you saying Is random guessworking stuff..
    If that makes you feel better about yourself than it is fine. I will accept I did not take the morning medications. ever. Guilty as charged.
    As it is obvious that we all operate with some facts and with some assumptions in these discussion and I feel quite confident that the ancient Greek historians that I mentioned as well as current Y dna population in the region/Albania, which is substantial as a sample, make for more solid facts than the alternatives. Of course once the ancient dna that is being now processed from south albania in two separate batches will be analyzed this year and the next we will know for sure who should run for the meds

  6. #596
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    Quote Originally Posted by gjergj View Post
    If that makes you feel better about yourself than it is fine. I will accept I did not take the morning medications. ever. Guilty as charged.
    As it is obvious that we all operate with some facts and with some assumptions in these discussion and I feel quite confident that the ancient Greek historians that I mentioned as well as current Y dna population in the region/Albania, which is substantial as a sample, make for more solid facts than the alternatives. Of course once the ancient dna that is being now processed from south albania in two separate batches will be analyzed this year and the next we will know for sure who should run for the meds
    You keep repeating the same stuff again and again.Can you tell us the haplogroups of ancient Greeks and Illyrians?That would be very easy to understand what is going with modern Greeks and Albanians.The only thing you saying is that Epirus is part of the Albanian genetics/heritage.Anything new?

  7. #597
    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny ola View Post
    You keep repeating the same stuff again and again.Can you tell us the haplogroups of ancient Greeks and Illyrians?That would be very easy to understand what is going with modern Greeks and Albanians.The only thing you saying is that Epirus is part of the Albanian genetics/heritage.Anything new?
    I did not say that. read what I said carefully. without the meds if possible

  8. #598
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    Quote Originally Posted by gjergj View Post
    I did not say that. read what I said carefully. without the meds if possible
    First of all you have to learn and understand that ethnic groups/tribes/clans are not forming with only one yDNA marker/lineage.Even Illyrians/Thracians/Dardanians and Greeks would have been a mix of different lineages/clades.If EV13 took place during the LBA/EIA then it come in contact with native lineages like J2a,G2a maybe H,I2,R1b etc.EV13 in Greece is indeed highly coming from Arvanites,Vlachs,Slavs no1s doubt about it but.But EV13 peaks even in parts/regions were these people did not inhabit/settled.Witch means it has been there from before.But besides that,you will need deeper testing to check the clades.And also keep in mind Arvanites/Sioulotes did not brought only EV13 but also lineages like J2b,I2din and some weird I1 as we have seen lately with the Kolokotronis ancestor guy.A Germanic i would lineage.As for Epirus.It was never settled from Illyrian people.Epirus used to inhabit by Northwest Greek tribes and in the borders with Albania it was the cline between Greeks and Illyrians.You can't know what lineages these tribes used to carry without samples.

  9. #599
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny ola View Post
    First of all you have to learn and understand that ethnic groups/tribes/clans are not forming with only one yDNA marker/lineage.Even Illyrians/Thracians/Dardanians and Greeks would have been a mix of different lineages/clades.If EV13 took place during the LBA/EIA then it come in contact with native lineages like J2a,G2a maybe H,I2,R1b etc.EV13 in Greece is indeed highly coming from Arvanites,Vlachs,Slavs no1s doubt about it but.But EV13 peaks even in parts/regions were these people did not inhabit/settled.Witch means it has been there from before.But besides that,you will need deeper testing to check the clades.And also keep in mind Arvanites/Sioulotes did not brought only EV13 but also lineages like J2b,I2din and some weird I1 as we have seen lately with the Kolokotronis ancestor guy.A Germanic i would lineage.As for Epirus.It was never settled from Illyrian people.Epirus used to inhabit by Northwest Greek tribes and in the borders with Albania it was the cline between Greeks and Illyrians.You can't know what lineages these tribes used to carry without samples.
    I tend to view Epirotans not strictly as Greeks but some kind of non-Illyrian, non-Greek people that heavily adopted Hellenic culture. I am curious to see their Y-DNA.

    If this Eastern Urnfield theory and E-V13 spread holds water then most of E-V13 in Greece is during this time, Late Bronze Age, Greece was overflooded by this people attested by archaeological evidences.

    There is a Serbian sharing Y-DNA subclade(E-V13>Z1057>CTS1273>Z5018>S2979>Z16659>Y3183>S2972>Z 16661>S2978) with Peloponessians from Sparta and Apuglians, so there you have the trajectory.

    It's likely that some part of E-V13 were non-IE speaking as well, like Pelasgians which Gimbutas thought were Late Bronze Age invaders from the borders of Serbia and Romania (that's what Marija Gimbutas was thinking based on some archeological evidences).
    Last edited by Hawk; 02-14-2021 at 02:33 PM.

  10. #600
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