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Thread: Fraud and frequent preprocessing in Genetic data

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by tipirneni View Post
    Good question. I m seeing many G25 coordinates missing some data. But right now it beyond scope of this Thread.
    Prove your assertions. Who is missing data? What have they done?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tipirneni View Post
    Good question. I m seeing many G25 coordinates missing some data. But right now it beyond scope of this Thread.
    In what way are they “missing data”? If that were the case, you couldn’t even use them. Are you implying they’ve been edited somehow? If so, can you provide examples where you suspect this to be the case?

    Strong claims require strong evidence.

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  4. #13
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    Unbelievable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by agent_lime View Post
    Prove your assertions. Who is missing data? What have they done?
    Are you looking right at the all G25 coords being posted ? or just looking at the Khatri ones ? Did you ever try to check the validity of each coord ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Censored View Post
    In what way are they “missing data”? If that were the case, you couldn’t even use them. Are you implying they’ve been edited somehow? If so, can you provide examples where you suspect this to be the case?

    Strong claims require strong evidence.
    I am not using the G25 data. It is just a tool to post each individual past admixure & group admixure.
    Y: H-M69 -> H-M82 -> SK1225 -> H-Z5888 -> H-Z5890 -> H-CTS8144 [CTS8144/PF1741/M5498] -> Z34531 (H1a1a4b3b1a8~)
    mtDNA: U2a1a
    extras 309.1C 315.1C 522.1A 522.2 CG8572A G8860A T11368C T16093a T16154C C16519T C195T

    G25 Ancients Dist 0.99 Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA3:S8728.E1.L1 65.2 Saidu_Sharif_IA_o:S7722.E1.L1 17.8 Udegram_IA:I1985 7.8 Jordanian:S_Jordanian-1 4.4 Barikot_IA:I6545 2.2 Scotland_N:I26602 Narva_Lithuania: Donkalnis6

    Lactose persistance rs3213871 rs4988243

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    Quote Originally Posted by tipirneni View Post
    Are you looking right at the all G25 coords being posted ? or just looking at the Khatri ones ? Did you ever try to check the validity of each coord ?
    The assertion is so big, you'll have to do the leg work. I still have to tell you this is some conspiracy level stuff. First, you would have to come up with what the person's preference is, and then skew the results that way by modifying in the SNP data. That would take some machine learning and serious bit of hardware. Add to that these companies can and will get sued out of existence if it comes to the front that they were modifying data on racist or ethnic notions.

    Many people do take multiple ancestry tests, if we find a user that you suspect has been modified we could write a program to cross check SNP's. Although I highly highly doubt it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by agent_lime View Post
    The assertion is so big, you'll have to do the leg work. I still have to tell you this is some conspiracy level stuff. First, you would have to come up with what the person's preference is, and then skew the results that way by modifying in the SNP data. That would take some machine learning and serious bit of hardware. Add to that these companies can and will get sued out of existence if it comes to the front that they were modifying data on racist or ethnic notions.

    Many people do take multiple ancestry tests, if we find a user that you suspect has been modified we could write a program to cross check SNP's. Although I highly highly doubt it.
    The first issue is I don't think they have any knowledge about what they are alleging actually entails. I'm going to get technical here The first part is about data falsification and they claim the use of preprocessing which for anyone unfamiliar with its use in data science means to clean up and contextualize data so you don't end up with a "garbage in, garbage out" situation. In this case it would have to apply to before a sample is sequenced which makes no sense and anything after is post-processing because current consumer testing sequencing processes don't output any "noise" that needs to be handled by preprocessing. If data were to be falsified it would be entirely a post-processing task and one that you couldn't get away with because so many people use multiple testing companies.

    At the end of the post are much more believable claims of financial fraud by using unlicensed lab techs but billing for work by licensed lab techs that you almost surely have to legally have doing the work in the first place but that doesn't seem to have anything to do with falsifying customers genetic data.

    It is normal that unsampled or undersampled heterogeneity within a population/group caused by isolation and drift on one hand and gene flow via admixture on the other are to be expected. There are going to be outliers as well but they are necessarily defined relative to the sample pool which could just as easily be cherry picked to conform to expectations in the first place. He actually said that removed outliers could be "verified by phenotype" which in this instance makes it easy to interpret his post and his replies as coming down to "I think data is being falsified because if a person doesn't look like X ethnicity as I am familiar with then the data should clearly reflect that".

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  14. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by tipirneni View Post
    I am not using the G25 data. It is just a tool to post each individual past admixure & group admixure.
    G25 is not even an Admixture calculator to begin it can perfectly replicate results of formal stats even, from what DMXX said. Indeed , I can replicate results seen in formal papers.

    You make borderline trollish posts at times but this one really takes the cake.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xenus View Post
    The first issue is I don't think they have any knowledge about what they are alleging actually entails. I'm going to get technical here The first part is about data falsification and they claim the use of preprocessing which for anyone unfamiliar with its use in data science means to clean up and contextualize data so you don't end up with a "garbage in, garbage out" situation. In this case it would have to apply to before a sample is sequenced which makes no sense and anything after is post-processing because current consumer testing sequencing processes don't output any "noise" that needs to be handled by preprocessing. If data were to be falsified it would be entirely a post-processing task and one that you couldn't get away with because so many people use multiple testing companies.

    At the end of the post are much more believable claims of financial fraud by using unlicensed lab techs but billing for work by licensed lab techs that you almost surely have to legally have doing the work in the first place but that doesn't seem to have anything to do with falsifying customers genetic data.

    It is normal that unsampled or undersampled heterogeneity within a population/group caused by isolation and drift on one hand and gene flow via admixture on the other are to be expected. There are going to be outliers as well but they are necessarily defined relative to the sample pool which could just as easily be cherry picked to conform to expectations in the first place. He actually said that removed outliers could be "verified by phenotype" which in this instance makes it easy to interpret his post and his replies as coming down to "I think data is being falsified because if a person doesn't look like X ethnicity as I am familiar with then the data should clearly reflect that".
    He seriously could have just gone with "I think people are doctoring their own calculator results after having received them". It wouldn't involve so much suspension of belief. Not that I believe this to be the case either.

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  18. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Censored View Post
    He seriously could have just gone with "I think people are doctoring their own calculator results after having received them". It wouldn't involve so much suspension of belief. Not that I believe this to be the case either.
    Doctoring G25 in a specific way would take a lot of work. The only thing I can believe is that someone changes their Harappa, but even those will get caught when they post their oracles. Companies changing SNP's when according to them I am 100% South Asian the same as a Sri Lankan seems ridiculous

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