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Thread: Fraud and frequent preprocessing in Genetic data

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Censored View Post
    He seriously could have just gone with "I think people are doctoring their own calculator results after having received them". It wouldn't involve so much suspension of belief. Not that I believe this to be the case either.
    We had a few cases of people altering their results on calcs, but they were caught right away. I don't think anyone is smart enough to edit their own data and take off markers they don't want.
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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyDLuffy View Post
    We had a few cases of people altering their results on calcs, but they were caught right away. I don't think anyone is smart enough to edit their own data and take off markers they don't want.
    I think they can change the well known SNPs alleles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyDLuffy View Post
    We had a few cases of people altering their results on calcs, but they were caught right away. I don't think anyone is smart enough to edit their own data and take off markers they don't want.
    What happened in these instances/what was the context?

  5. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by 26284729292 View Post
    What happened in these instances/what was the context?
    There was one Pashtun guy from a long time ago who was altering his results to appear less South Asian shifted.

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  7. #25
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    I may, of course, be wrong, but... I have worked a lot (and once again recently) with AIMs (Ancestral Informative Markers). My experiments were all rather deceiving, in the sense that those AIMs seem to be very little ... informative. I can hardly imagine how it would be possible to change significantly an individual "ethnic make-up" by modifying by hand the genotypes of some of those AIMs, and a fortiori of a handful, even a big handful, of "markers". All this story makes me very skeptical.
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  9. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by anglesqueville View Post
    I may, of course, be wrong, but... I have worked a lot (and once again recently) with AIMs (Ancestral Informative Markers). My experiments were all rather deceiving, in the sense that those AIMs seem to be very little ... informative. I can hardly imagine how it would be possible to change significantly an individual "ethnic make-up" by modifying by hand the genotypes of some of those AIMs, and a fortiori of a handful, even a big handful, of "markers". All this story makes me very skeptical.
    It probably can be done. Find the markers that are more Western Eurasian, replace ASI ones. Then make a new raw file. It would take a lot of work to do manually though.

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  11. #27
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    Original poster said, "so remove the Dalit SNPs using pre-processing & add some Aryan SNPs to make a statement. So they will be doing it."

    I really wanted to bite on that, because the idea of "Dalit SNPs"... The microarrays used in current ancestry testing are testing mostly for frequent variants, in fact the definition of SNP is something along the lines of frequency more than 1-2%. To become that common, they need to be tens of thousands years old - in other words, they were formed long before the populations they seek to measure. Unless the variant is very recent one, it's going to be shared a lot by geographically close populations, and has indepently occurred in geographically distant populations. Most modern ancestry estimation methods in fact use haplotype based approach due to these reasons, not individual markers. It's quite doubtful any "Dalit SNPs" exist, and the suggestion of them existing in itself sounds discriminatory.

    On the technical side though, I have bad news. Regardless of the method used for ancestry estimates, for an individual tester it would be as simple as copying raw data from someone of desired ethnicity (Many, many people have published their raw data) to run at a third party. Of course, why bother when you can just paintshop the results? As for the genetic genealogy companies itself, having developed the analysis of course they have the expertise to make changes to data to make it look any ethnicity desired. But as I noted early on, if they actually changed the raw data as was implied by the original poster, these people would no longer match their relatives in DNA relatives comparison.

    So basically, there are no "SNP's for specific ethnicity", and while tampering with the genetic data is a feasible feat, for the test-taker Photoshop is much more easy and straightforward, and if a testing company did it, it would be immediately obvious. Adjusting ancestry analysis results is well possible, but lacks motivation unless it can be shown that the party doing the analysis is of or getting paid by said ethnicity. Either way, it should be easy to provide specific proof of "Fraud and frequent preprocessing".

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    This smells like a conspiracy theory's stink to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vadim Verenich View Post
    This smells like a conspiracy theory's stink to me.
    Elaborate please.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jatt1 View Post
    Elaborate please.
    The whole topic which has been discussed for a while is just another example of very well known informal fallacy:

    Conspiracy Theory

    (also known as: canceling hypothesis, canceling hypotheses, cover-ups)

    Description: Explaining that your claim cannot be proven or verified because the truth is being hidden and/or evidence destroyed by a group of two or more people. When that reason is challenged as not being true or accurate, the challenge is often presented as just another attempt to cover up the truth and presented as further evidence that the original claim is true.

    Logical Form:

    A is true.

    B is why the truth cannot be proven.

    Therefore, A is true.

    Example #1:

    Noah’s ark has been found by the Russian government a long time ago, but because of their hate for religion, they have been covering it up ever since.

    Example #2:

    Geologists and scientists all over the world are discovering strong evidence for a 6000-year-old earth, yet because of the threat of ruining their reputation, they are suppressing the evidence and keeping quiet.

    Example #3:
    Some ethnicities are known to be emotional about Genetic data so genetic testing companies resort to pre-processing & post-processing of the genetic data from the test results. These processing are done to remove certain ethnic SNPs from their data
    Last edited by Vadim Verenich; 04-05-2019 at 08:20 PM.

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