Page 13 of 15 FirstFirst ... 31112131415 LastLast
Results 121 to 130 of 143

Thread: From East to West, who is more Yamna culture? G25

  1. #121
    Registered Users
    Posts
    284
    Sex
    Location
    Moscow
    Ethnicity
    Corded Ware
    Nationality
    Rus
    Y-DNA
    R1a1

    Russian Federation
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldmountains View Post
    Yamnaya Hungary was also R1b just like eastern Yamnaya. I dont think Ukrainian Yamnaya had a lof R1a. Probably some in peripheral regions but this was rather from Sredny Stog/Corded Ware influences
    "Sredniy Stog2" is something other than Corded Ware. The CWC did not originate from the "Sredniy Stog". Yamna_Samara = Corded Ware early.

  2. #122
    Moderator
    Posts
    859
    Sex
    Y-DNA
    R1a-Z93
    mtDNA
    H28 (UA)

    Quote Originally Posted by AlexRus View Post
    "Sredniy Stog2" is something other than Corded Ware. The CWC did not originate from the "Sredniy Stog". Yamna_Samara = Corded Ware early.
    Sredny Stog was diverse and had very different rations of EEF/steppe ancestry so sredny stog could have a early corded ware-like group. Yamnaya is hyped and not that important like many assume. Repin+Sredny Stog is probably ancestral to Corded Ware. For example there are rumours that my Y3 (Indo-Aryan) line was found in Sredny Stog and that would mean that later Indo-Iranians are directly related to Sredny Stog by y-dna. Sredny Stog had R1a-M417 (confirmed) and that is exactly the line of Balto-Slavs and Indo-Iranians. It is the earliest R1a-M417 found yet. So there must be a connection between Corded Ware, Balto-Slavs, Indo-Iranians and Sredny Stog.
    Last edited by Coldmountains; 04-13-2019 at 08:33 PM.
    Y-DNA: R1a> R-M417> R-Z645> R-Z93> R-Z94> R-Y3 (Sredny Stog culture)> R-L657> R-Y4(Andronovo)> R-Y6> R-Y5> R-Y920* (Pashtun)

  3. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Coldmountains For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (04-14-2019),  etrusco (04-14-2019),  Kulin (Yesterday),  pegasus (Today)

  4. #123
    Registered Users
    Posts
    284
    Sex
    Location
    Moscow
    Ethnicity
    Corded Ware
    Nationality
    Rus
    Y-DNA
    R1a1

    Russian Federation
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldmountains View Post
    Sredny Stog was diverse and had very different rations of EEF/steppe ancestry so sredny stog could have a early corded ware-like group. Yamnaya is hyped and not that important like many assume. Repin+Sredny Stog is probably ancestral to Corded Ware. For example there are rumours that my Y3 (Indo-Aryan) line was found in Sredny Stog and that would mean that later Indo-Iranians are directly related to Sredny Stog by y-dna. Sredny Stog had R1a-M417 (confirmed) and that is exactly the line of Balto-Slavs and Indo-Iranians. It is the earliest R1a-M417 found yet. So there must be a connection between Corded Ware, Balto-Slavs, Indo-Iranians and Sredny Stog.
    I've only seen the G25 coordinates of one sample of the Sredniy Stog2. And this sample of Eneolithic looks like a late mixed with Farmers Corded Ware.

  5. #124
    Registered Users
    Posts
    939
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Indo-europeen
    Y-DNA
    R1a-Y33 Kurgan/ CWC
    mtDNA
    H76

    European Union Poland Lithuania Ukraine Romania Germany
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldmountains View Post
    Sredny Stog was diverse and had very different rations of EEF/steppe ancestry so sredny stog could have a early corded ware-like group. Yamnaya is hyped and not that important like many assume. Repin+Sredny Stog is probably ancestral to Corded Ware. For example there are rumours that my Y3 (Indo-Aryan) line was found in Sredny Stog and that would mean that later Indo-Iranians are directly related to Sredny Stog by y-dna. Sredny Stog had R1a-M417 (confirmed) and that is exactly the line of Balto-Slavs and Indo-Iranians. It is the earliest R1a-M417 found yet. So there must be a connection between Corded Ware, Balto-Slavs, Indo-Iranians and Sredny Stog.
    But Srediny Stog, like the early CWC culture, must be genetically Yamna at least 70% or not? because CWC has evolved from the Yamna culture and of course in a slightly different direction for Baltoslawen, Germanics ... but you can not see Yamna as unimportant, even for Indo-Iranians. It is clear that a direct genetic Yamna existed in the steppe and is present in the Balkans
    Alain Dad
    Y-DNA R1a-Y33 Eastern Corderd Ware Culture Baltoslavic/ old Pruzzen
    H76 czech Republic W3a1d Yamnaya Culture, Samara /Pontic steppe
    Scytho-sarmatian.

    My FTDNA autosomal

    East Europe 82%
    Southeast Europe 14%
    Finland 2%
    West and Central Europe 1%

  6. #125
    Registered Users
    Posts
    939
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Indo-europeen
    Y-DNA
    R1a-Y33 Kurgan/ CWC
    mtDNA
    H76

    European Union Poland Lithuania Ukraine Romania Germany
    Quote Originally Posted by Alain View Post
    But Srediny Stog, like the early CWC culture, must be genetically Yamna at least 70% or not? because CWC has evolved from the Yamna culture and of course in a slightly different direction for Baltoslawen, Germanics ... but you can not see Yamna as unimportant, even for Indo-Iranians. It is clear that a direct genetic Yamna existed in the steppe and is present in the Balkans
    yes sredny stog is older than Yamna but there is still no connection?
    Alain Dad
    Y-DNA R1a-Y33 Eastern Corderd Ware Culture Baltoslavic/ old Pruzzen
    H76 czech Republic W3a1d Yamnaya Culture, Samara /Pontic steppe
    Scytho-sarmatian.

    My FTDNA autosomal

    East Europe 82%
    Southeast Europe 14%
    Finland 2%
    West and Central Europe 1%

  7. #126
    Bronze Class Member
    Posts
    1,641
    Sex

    Turkmenistan Suriname South Africa Costa Rica Norway Australia
    Important to remember that the early corded ware was in the Baltic which is right between Scandinavia and eastern Europe. Early CWC was very similar to Yamnaya so the fact that Scandinavians and east Europeans have nearly identical amounts of steppe should not be surprising at all, since it is the culture that northern Europeans actually descend from(as ColdMountains said).

  8. #127
    Registered Users
    Posts
    2,629
    Sex
    Location
    Groningen
    Ethnicity
    Northwest European
    Nationality
    NL
    Y-DNA
    E-V22

    Netherlands
    Quote Originally Posted by anglesqueville View Post
    For info, I tried to compare G25+nMonte and qpAdm (with the large recently published Lazaridis' eigenstrat file) for Icelandic modeled as CWC_early and Swedish TRB. I'm not the greatest fan of G25+nMonte, but I must admit that this case is impressive.

    [1] "distance%=2.0998"

    Icelandic

    CWC_Baltic_early,59
    Sweden_TRB,41
    ******************

    left pops:
    Icelandic.DG
    CW_early
    Sweden_TRB_MN.SG

    numsnps used: 283638

    best coefficients: 0.536 0.464
    Jackknife mean: 0.536370936 0.463629064
    std. errors: 0.060 0.060

    fixed pat wt dof chisq tail prob
    00 0 16 9.220 0.904087 0.536 0.464 (adjustment optimal)
    Interesting some averages and members done with the web runner:
    Schermafbeelding 2019-04-20 om 06.19.14.png

  9. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Finn For This Useful Post:

     anglesqueville (Yesterday),  Coldmountains (Today),  JMcB (Yesterday),  MitchellSince1893 (Yesterday)

  10. #128
    Registered Users
    Posts
    3,037
    Sex
    Location
    Tierra de Ayllon
    Nationality
    Vespuccian
    Y-DNA
    U152>L2>Z41150>Z49>

    England Scotland Wales Germany Northern Ireland Ireland
    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    Interesting some averages and members done with the web runner:
    Schermafbeelding 2019-04-20 om 06.19.14.png
    Out of curiosity, I expanded the number of Northern European populations and ran it at 1000 nMonte cycles, 500 nMonte batches, default penalty, and 30% ideal Filter.

    Pops in CWC ranked order
    1. Finnish were highest in CWC (69.4), by a large margin, followed by the
    2. Swedes (62.2).
    3. Shetlands & Norwegians (60.4)
    5. Irish & German_East (60.2)
    7. Poles (59.8)
    8. Icelandic (58.8)
    9. Scottish (58.6)
    10. Welsh (57)
    11. English (56.2)
    12. Dutch (55.8)
    13. Orcadian (53.6)
    14. English_Cornwall & German (51)
    16. Belgian (45.4)
    17. French_East (43)
    18. French were the lowest.(40.8) in CWC and highest in TRB (59.2)

    Last edited by MitchellSince1893; Yesterday at 05:50 AM. Reason: Welsh 10th not English
    Y-DNA R-Z49>Z142>Z12222>FGC12378>FGC12401>FGC12384
    Ancestry: 37% English, 26% Scot/Ulster Scot, 14% Welsh, 14% German 3% Ireland, 3% Nordic, 2% French & Dutch, 1% India

  11. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to MitchellSince1893 For This Useful Post:

     Coldmountains (Today),  JMcB (Yesterday)

  12. #129
    Registered Users
    Posts
    793
    Sex
    Location
    Brittany
    Nationality
    French
    Y-DNA
    R-U106 S497
    mtDNA
    K1a

    France Bretagne Kroaz Du
    "distance%=3.7925"

    Trelvern_scaled

    CWC_Baltic_early,50
    Sweden_TRB,50

    several runs get values between 46 (the lowest) and 50 (the highest) i think the correct value for CWC early is about 48 (pretty close to JMcB result)
    Last edited by Trelvern; Yesterday at 07:29 AM.

  13. The Following User Says Thank You to Trelvern For This Useful Post:

     JMcB (Yesterday)

  14. #130
    Moderator
    Posts
    5,420
    Sex
    Location
    Normandy
    Ethnicity
    northwesterner
    Y-DNA
    U152>L2>Z367
    mtDNA
    H5a1

    Normandie Netherlands Friesland Finland Orkney
    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellSince1893 View Post
    Out of curiosity, I expanded the number of Northern European populations and ran it at 1000 nMonte cycles, 500 nMonte batches, default penalty, and 30% ideal Filter.

    Pops in CWC ranked order
    1. Finnish were highest in CWC (69.4), by a large margin, followed by the
    2. Swedes (62.2).
    3. Shetlands & Norwegians (60.4)
    5. Irish & German_East (60.2)
    7. Poles (59.8)
    8. Icelandic (58.8)
    9. Scottish (58.6)
    10. Welsh (57)
    11. English (56.2)
    12. Dutch (55.8)
    13. Orcadian (53.6)
    14. English_Cornwall & German (51)
    16. Belgian (45.4)
    17. French_East (43)
    18. French were the lowest.(40.8) in CWC and highest in TRB (59.2)

    This model doesn't work in an optimal way for the Finns, because they need a third source which can bear their Siberian minor ancestry (likely inherited from their mixing with the Saamis during the Iron Age and Middle Ages). This third reference "eats" a part of their CWC (1). On the other extremity (in particular for the French) the TRB affinity is overestimated because of its overlapping with other late neolithic populations. About this very problem, I expect that the publication of the Megalithic genomes will allow us to get more realistic models.

    (1) The choice of this third source is not easy. I tried several ones (including some modern pops, like Evens), but was unable to find any completely satisfying, in particular in terms of orthogonality of references. In fact, I find it very difficult to elaborate a basis of analysis with nMonte that can optimally avoid the issue of overlapping. I'm working on a little "calculator" that I expect to be running for a large area, including the Uralic populations inside Russia (Morvins, Maris), and Saamis on one side, MENA populations on the other. And, as always, I encounter difficult problems with the extremities. For example with the Saamis, who get a Levant_N and Iberomaurusan percentage that makes no sense, and with the south European pops who get a non-sensible Barcin percentage. Too many references lead to overlapping. A lack of references leads to such absurdities, as nMonte has no idea of alleles, and aims only to an optimal "geometrical" fit. It's a real headache.
    En North alom, de North venom
    En North fum naiz, en North manom

    (Roman de Rou, Wace, 1160-1170)

  15. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to anglesqueville For This Useful Post:

     Просигој (Yesterday),  AlexRus (Yesterday),  Coldmountains (Today),  JMcB (Yesterday),  MitchellSince1893 (Yesterday)

Page 13 of 15 FirstFirst ... 31112131415 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 10-08-2018, 06:07 PM
  2. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 03-30-2018, 01:34 PM
  3. Replies: 51
    Last Post: 02-16-2017, 09:22 PM
  4. New Leak: CWC=73% Yamna, modern North Euros=50% Yamna.
    By Krefter in forum Ancient (aDNA)
    Replies: 194
    Last Post: 02-12-2015, 03:10 AM
  5. U5 Origins: East and West
    By rms2 in forum U
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 11-30-2014, 06:36 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •