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Thread: Hilariously Bad Updates Results

  1. #11
    Gold Class Member
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    Pittsburgh, PA, USA
    Ethnicity
    Ger.-Brit.-Catalan-more
    Nationality
    (U.S.) American
    Y-DNA (P)
    R-YP619*
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    H1bg

    United Kingdom Germany Bayern Catalonia France Ireland Switzerland
    Quote Originally Posted by sktibo View Post
    from what I've seen its southern and western German ancestry which has problems being classified as English both in Living and Ancestry (NW Europe England and Wales category) while 23 has a category that seems identify W and S German and French pretty decently while North and East German doesn't fit well.

    The problem as I see it is that Germany cannot be a single category. If your references are based on north germans then the S and W will fall closer to England. If your reference is based on s and w germans then north will often get Scandinavia and eastern will get eastern europe.
    What's particularly stupid about this is, where does Ancestry think the "German Palatine" ancestry of many Americans came from? It's precisely those areas that they seem to have the greatest problem with. So I get 80% "England, Wales & Northwestern Europe" and only 6% "Germanic Europe". 34.4% of my ancestry is from "Palatine Germany", with another 6.25% from Alsace-Lorraine, 3.1% from France, and 1.2% from Switzerland. But I get no "France" and, as I said, only 6% "Germanic Europe".

    On the other hand, my actually "British & Irish" ancestry (combined) is only 40.6% -- not the 91% the Ancestry has for the two together. Plus, they don't see any of my Spanish ancestry, which is 12.5%. About the only thing they seem to get right is my Native American ancestry, which is almost identical on paper to Ancestry's prediction of 2%. (23andMe puts it a little higher, at 2.3%.)

    Arguably, the fact that Ancestry calls the region "England, Wales & Northwestern Europe" is an acknowledgement that they realize this ancestry isn't just British. But then they proceed to talk about the region as if it were, and they call my 80% in this category a 55% increase for me from my old result. Since the only component I had pre-update that was 25% "Great Britain", it's clear that at some level Ancestry thinks that "England, Wales & Northwestern Europe" = "Great Britain" by a different name. For some reason they didn't say that my 6% "Germanic Europe" represents a 38% decrease from my 44% "Europe West", but basically that is the case.

    It's obvious they did more in selecting the reference panels than just adding more samples. They brought in more "continental-leaning" samples for the "England, Wales & Northwestern Europe" panel, even if the samples were limited to England and Wales; and it's likely that they also eliminated any samples from the "Germanic Europe" panel that were deemed "too similar" to the "England, Wales & Northwestern Europe" panel. That likely means that if my Palatine ancestors themselves could be tested, many of them would lean more toward "England, Wales & Northwestern Europe" than they would toward "Germanic Europe" -- despite the fact that they actually came from Germany long before the present-day members of the reference panel (or their grandparents) were ever born.

    Meanwhile, 23andMe says I have 39.2% "French & German" -- which is considerably closer to my paper trail than Ancestry is. It also says I have just 31.4% "British & Irish", which is somewhat less than what my paper trail says, but also closer to the actual amount. Another 19.7% of my ancestry is identified as "broadly northwestern European". They do see some of my Spanish ancestry, but not as much as my paper trail says I should have -- just 5.1% (instead of 12.5%). Since my Spanish ancestors were from the island of Menorca, DNA-wise they might shift more in the direction of the French. (But as I said, Ancestry doesn't see any French either.)

    With LivingDNA, I have 45.5% "France"; 26.3% "Germanic"; 12.6% "Ireland"; 7.7% "Northwest Scotland"; and 7.9% "Iberian Peninsula". No Native American in their analysis, but it's just about the only company that doesn't find any -- even FTDNA says "2%".

    I can't imagine that even with different DNA tests there's that much difference in the results. Different SNPs may be tested, but they shouldn't lead to markedly different ancestries. Rather, that is likely due to: (1) different reference panels; and (2) different algorithm for determining ancestry.

    EDIT:

    Wanted to add that at 23andMe, under "French & German" they further give "Switzerland" as a likely match, and "Hesse" as a possible match.
    Last edited by geebee; 08-07-2019 at 03:17 PM.
    Besides British-German-Catalan, ancestry includes smaller amounts of French, Irish, Swiss, Choctaw & another NA tribe, possibly Catawba. Avatar picture is: my father, his father, & his father's father; baby is my eldest brother.

    GB

  2. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to geebee For This Useful Post:

     Ron from PA (08-26-2019),  Rufus191 (08-20-2019)

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