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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Camulogène Rix View Post
    Le calcul des populatons ancestrales colle bien. En revanche le least square me tire trop à l'ouest en effet, avec prédominance ibérique.

    Allez, j'adopte celle-là, toute en nuances:
    French+Italian_Tuscan+Italian_Tuscan+Welsh @ 2,403381
    Pour te consoler, voilà ce que je sors pour moi (seulement les Least Squares, les Gaussiens sont pires). Les distances sont minuscules, et l'invasion des références est-européennes est terrible.

    sing 4 populations approximation:
    1 French_South+Norwegian+Norwegian+Swedish @ 0,489897
    2 Belarusian+Finnish+French+French_South @ 0,578791
    3 French_South+French_South+Lithuanian+Mordovian @ 0,644204
    4 Latvian+Sardinian+Swedish+Russian_Kostroma @ 0,689202
    5 Lithuanian+Sardinian+Russian_Kostroma+Russian_Tver @ 0,689202
    6 Lithuanian+Sardinian+Russian_Kostroma+Russian_Kurs k @ 0,714142
    7 French_South+French_South+Latvian+Mordovian @ 0,717635
    8 French_South+Lithuanian+Spanish_Pais_Vasco+Mordovi an @ 0,741619
    9 Austrian+Finnish+Swedish+Basque_French @ 0,796868
    10 Finnish_East+Spanish_Cataluna+Spanish_Pais_Vasco+R ussian_Smolensk @ 0,812403
    11 Finnish_East+French_South+Spanish_Cataluna+Russian _Smolensk @ 0,863133
    12 Finnish+French+Basque_French+Russian_Orel @ 0,871779
    13 Finnish+French+Basque_French+Russian_Voronez @ 0,891627
    14 Lithuanian+Sardinian+Russian_Kostroma+Russian_Orel @ 0,894427
    15 Belgian+Finnish+Swedish+Basque_French @ 0,905538
    16 Finnish+Slovenian+Spanish_Pais_Vasco+Swedish @ 0,905538
    17 Finnish_East+Spanish_Aragon+Basque_French+Russian_ Smolensk @ 0,916515
    18 Belarusian+Lithuanian+Sardinian+Mordovian @ 0,921954
    19 Finnish+French_South+Slovenian+Swedish @ 0,924662
    20 Finnish+Lithuanian+Sardinian+Russian_Kursk @ 0,927361
    21 French_South+Norwegian+Swedish+Swedish @ 0,930053
    22 Estonian+Spanish_Cataluna+Spanish_Pais_Vasco+Russi an_Kostroma @ 0,932737
    23 Finnish+French+French_South+Russian_Voronez @ 0,951314
    24 Lithuanian+Polish+Sardinian+Russian_Pinega @ 0,959166
    25 Spanish_Pais_Vasco+Spanish_Pais_Vasco+Russian_Tver +Russian_Tver @ 0,969535
    26 Finnish+Slovenian+Swedish+Basque_French @ 0,982344
    27 Finnish+French+Spanish_Pais_Vasco+Russian_Voronez @ 0,982344
    28 Spanish_Pais_Vasco+Basque_French+Russian_Tver+Russ ian_Tver @ 0,997496
    29 Estonian+Spanish_Cataluna+Basque_French+Russian_Ko stroma @ 0,997496
    30 Belarusian+Belarusian+Finnish_East+Sardinian @ 1,002496
    31 Finnish+French+French_South+Russian_Smolensk @ 1,002496
    32 Estonian+French_South+Spanish_Valencia+Russian_Tve r @ 1,004987
    33 Finnish_East+Lithuanian+Sardinian+Russian_Orel @ 1,014889
    34 Finnish_East+Spanish_Valencia+Basque_French+Russia n_Smolensk @ 1,014889
    35 Belarusian+Finnish_East+French_South+Spanish_Catal una @ 1,017349
    36 Estonian+Spanish_Aragon+Spanish_Pais_Vasco+Russian _Tver @ 1,027131
    37 Finnish+French+Basque_French+Russian_Kursk @ 1,03923
    38 Basque_French+Basque_French+Russian_Smolensk+Mordo vian @ 1,041633
    39 Finnish_East+French_South+Spanish_Cantabria+Russia n_Smolensk @ 1,041633
    40 Finnish+Lithuanian+Sardinian+Russian_Tver @ 1,048808


    Si j'abandonne 4Mix et que j'utilise nMonte (en toute conscience du fait que c'est donc du nMonte sur du nMonte... j'en ai les poils qui se hérissent!), j'arrive à des modèles presque raisonnables en gonflant la pénalité à 0.005:

    [1] "distance%=2.2561"

    angle

    Dutch,48.4
    Norwegian,27.6
    Swedish,3.4
    Finnish_East,2.6
    Estonian,1.6
    Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha,1.6
    Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon,1.6
    Basque_French,1.4
    Sardinian,1.4
    Spanish_Aragon,1.4
    Spanish_Pais_Vasco,1.4
    Finnish,1.2
    French_South,1.2
    Lithuanian,1.2
    Spanish_Galicia,1

    Cela donne sauf erreur un total de 11% pour l'Europe du SW, 79.4 pour l'Europe du NW, et 6.6% pour le NE. On n'est pas loin de l'admissible. Mais au prix d'un empilage de nMontes et d'un bricolage à l'aveugle sur la pénalité. Ce n'est donc évidemment pas une méthode saine, et le fait qu'on a connu pire (je pense au oracles de certains Gedrosia) n'est pas une justification. Non, il faut savoir oser des expériences, mais il faut aussi garder les yeux ouverts. Quand ça ne marche pas, ça ne marche pas, voilà.
    En North alom, de North venom
    En North fum naiz, en North manom

    (Roman de Rou, Wace, 1160-1170)

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  3. #22
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    J'ai eu plus de curiosité pour le fichier références pays utilisés, mais c'est toujours difficile à interpréter. Par exemple Anatolia_N contient du WHG et du Levant_N, raison qui fait que Levant_N n'apparaît pas pour beaucoup de pays .
    Anatolia_N et WHG s'y relient bien à une analyse d'Eurogenes f3 (pop moderne, pop ancienne, Mbuti) .

    A cause de son échantillon ("Lyonnais", par son barycentre) , France est comme toujours peu représentatif des Français du nord, et France_South est plutôt France_South_West se rapprochant des Basques Français.

    Je ne trouve intéressant les oracles à 2,3,4 voies que pour les gens mixés dans les toutes dernières générations, et ce n'est intéressant que si son ascendance et au moins partiellement connu , pour faire le bon choix dans les meilleures propositions et ne pas se fixer obligatoirement sur les premières proposées .
    Last edited by palamede; 04-21-2019 at 09:00 AM.

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  5. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by palamede View Post
    J'ai eu plus de curiosité pour le fichier références pays utilisés, mais c'est toujours difficile à interpréter. Par exemple Anatolia_N contient du WHG et du Levant_N, raison qui fait que Levant_N n'apparaît pas pour beaucoup de pays .
    Anatolia_N et WHG s'y relient bien à une analyse d'Eurogenes f3 (pop moderne, pop ancienne, Mbuti) .

    A cause de son échantillon ("Lyonnais", par son barycentre) , France est comme toujours peu représentatif des Français du nord, et France_South est plutôt France_South_West se rapprochant des Basques Français.

    Je ne trouve intéressant les oracles à 2,3,4 voies que pour les gens mixés dans les toutes dernières générations, et ce n'est intéressant que si son ascendance et au moins partiellement connu , pour faire le bon choix dans les meilleures propositions et ne pas se fixer obligatoirement sur les premières proposées .
    L'idéal serait évidemment un pannel de références absolument orthogonales, mais l'idéal n'est jamais de ce monde et la seule chose à laquelle on peut travailler est de réduire autant que possible l'overlapping. Je ne pense pas que l'overlapping de WHG, Barcin et Levant_N crée un problème majeur, et je suis assez confiant que là où Levant_N apparaît c'est pour signaler un bonus, un flux supplémentaire et postérieur à la colonisation anatolienne du début du Néolithique, ou (dans le cas de Cypre par exemple) une colonisation des néolithiques levantins antérieure à la colonisation anatolienne. En revanche l'overlapping de Botai et ANE est problématique, et je pense que j'aurais dû insister avec Bolshoi, mais c'est trop tard. Quant aux oracles 4Mix, tu sais bien que je n'ai jamais été "fan". Mais j'avais envie de voir ce que cela donnait, et si "faire du vieux avec du neuf" pouvait donner un outil "amateur" digne d'être utilisé. La réponse est sûrement "non".
    Quant au problème de la moyenne "French", il ne lui est à coup sûr pas spécifique. Les seules populations européennes régionalisées de manière satisfaisante sont l'espagnole, l'italienne, la britannique et la russe. Toutes les autres demanderaient un travail en profondeur. Je pense en particulier à l'Allemagne, mais à plus petite échelle aussi aux Pays-Bas. Je suis convaincu que l'intuition de Finn d'une structure fine N/S aux Pays-Bas est juste, et serait vérifiée par une étude aussi fine que celles qui ont été réalisées en Espagne.
    En North alom, de North venom
    En North fum naiz, en North manom

    (Roman de Rou, Wace, 1160-1170)

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  7. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by palamede View Post
    J'ai eu plus de curiosité pour le fichier références pays utilisés, mais c'est toujours difficile à interpréter. Par exemple Anatolia_N contient du WHG et du Levant_N, raison qui fait que Levant_N n'apparaît pas pour beaucoup de pays .
    Anatolia_N et WHG s'y relient bien à une analyse d'Eurogenes f3 (pop moderne, pop ancienne, Mbuti) .

    A cause de son échantillon ("Lyonnais", par son barycentre) , France est comme toujours peu représentatif des Français du nord, et France_South est plutôt France_South_West se rapprochant des Basques Français.

    Je ne trouve intéressant les oracles à 2,3,4 voies que pour les gens mixés dans les toutes dernières générations, et ce n'est intéressant que si son ascendance et au moins partiellement connu , pour faire le bon choix dans les meilleures propositions et ne pas se fixer obligatoirement sur les premières proposées .
    Quand je vois cette dame "Simone Isère/Lyon" (un peu plus au nord/ouest que moi dans le PCA de Fabrice) faire :
    1 Italian_Bergamo+Lithuanian+Sardinian+Slovenian @ 1,761985

    Je me dis qu'elle devrait au minimum être deux fois French.

    Les Auvergnats de souche que j'avais vu poster leurs résultats ici avaient tous une forte composante ibérique (à 50%) alors pourtant qu'ils n'avaient pas d'ancêtres proches venus de là. Il y en avait même un avec 25% de Tuscan récurrent. Va comprendre...

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  9. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Camulogène Rix View Post
    Quand je vois cette dame "Simone Isère/Lyon" (un peu plus au nord/ouest que moi dans le PCA de Fabrice) faire :
    1 Italian_Bergamo+Lithuanian+Sardinian+Slovenian @ 1,761985

    Je me dis qu'elle devrait au minimum être deux fois French.

    Les Auvergnats de souche que j'avais vu poster leurs résultats ici avaient tous une forte composante ibérique (à 50%) alors pourtant qu'ils n'avaient pas d'ancêtres proches venus de là. Il y en avait même un avec 25% de Tuscan récurrent. Va comprendre...
    Ce que tu dois comprendre (qu'apparemment personne ne veut admettre) c'est qu'aucun de ces programmes (ni nMonte, ni admix4) n'a un quelconque rapport avec les allèles. Le rapport aux allèles (dans le contexte strict de la donnée d'une feuille de données biploides porteuses de fréquences d'allèles dérivés) est toujours fait en amont (via ADMIXTURE dans le contexte d'une utilisation classique d'admix4, ou via smartPCA dans le cas de "G25"). Et de toute manière la matière de telles analyses n'est jamais rien d'autre que les distributions de fréquences d'allèles, n'est jamais les "ancêtres".

    Les questions d'ancêtres sont toujours de l'ordre de l'interprétation et le resteront tant que l'utilisation de données haploîdes réelles n'aura pas pris la place de celle de feuilles de fréquences dérivées de données diploïdes. J'ai il y a quelques mois réussi à faire tourner FastIBD sur les données imputées de mon père (chrom 6 seulement) et les data à haute résolution de Pagani, et prouvé de manière irréfutable que mon père (et moi) portons sur le chrom 6 (dans la limite de données imputées) des segments IBD spécifiques aux Saamis, ou, pour être totalement rigoureux, aux Saamis norvégiens de Pagani. Mise à jour après mise à jour, chaque livraison de "relatifs" de FTDNA vient apporter sa confirmation involontaire, sous la forme de relatifs finlandais porteurs sur le chrom 6 d'un segment contenant le plus long de ces IBD. Ce que je viens d'écrire est peut-être ce qu'il y a de plus substanciel et réel de tout ce que la génétique m'a appris sur ma propre provenance depuis que j'ai commencé à travailler sur ces histoires. Bon, tu sais quelle proportion de "Saami" nous donnent les programmes de composition autosomale et leurs oracles? Réponse: 0%.

    Tes auvergnats ont évidemment des feuilles de fréquences d'allèles qui se laissent mathématiquement modéliser par des mixes comportant 50% de feuilles ibériques.
    Cela veut-il dire qu'une moitié de leurs ancêtres vient d'Ibérie? Ma réponse: je ne vois pas le rapport.
    Cela est-il significatif d'un flux de gènes d'Ibérie vers l'Auvergne ou le contraire? Même réponse
    Cela est-il significatif d'un important partage de gènes entre les deux régions à une époque indéterminée? C'est une interprétation possible (et n'aurait rien de choquant à mon avis) mais n'est rien de plus qu'une interprétation.
    En North alom, de North venom
    En North fum naiz, en North manom

    (Roman de Rou, Wace, 1160-1170)

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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by anglesqueville View Post
    Tes auvergnats ont évidemment des feuilles de fréquences d'allèles qui se laissent mathématiquement modéliser par des mixes comportant 50% de feuilles ibériques.
    Cela veut-il dire qu'une moitié de leurs ancêtres vient d'Ibérie? Ma réponse: je ne vois pas le rapport.
    Cela est-il significatif d'un flux de gènes d'Ibérie vers l'Auvergne ou le contraire? Même réponse
    Cela est-il significatif d'un important partage de gènes entre les deux régions à une époque indéterminée? C'est une interprétation possible (et n'aurait rien de choquant à mon avis) mais n'est rien de plus qu'une interprétation.
    Rassure-toi j'ai bien compris ton point sur les allèles.

    En l'occurence je répondais à Palamède qui laissait entendre que l'Admix4 pouvait laisser deviner une ancestralité proche pour les individus "mixés". C'est vrai pour moi (quoique de manière un peu surpondérée sur la composante Tuscan), mais ce n'est pas le cas pour ces Auvergnats.
    C'est très basique de ma part mais j'aurais tendance à interpreter les pops ibériques récurrentes chez de nombreux individus du sud de la Loire comme reflet du taux d'ANF structurellement plus élévé et le fruit de cet "important partage de gènes entre les deux régions à une époque indéterminée" auquel tu fais allusion.
    Mais comme tu le dis fort justement nous n'avons pas ici la précision régionale des études faites sur les Italiens, Espagnols et Britanniques. Et on sait bien pourquoi.

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  13. #27
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    Camu, je sais bien que tu comprends bien tout cela. Ce n'était qu'une tournure stylistique.
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    J'ai mis à profit quelques heures d'oisiveté et le manque de quelque chose de plus intéressant pour revoir cettte expérience. J'ai remplacé Botai (mauvais choix, je l'ai déjà dit) par Bolshoi_Oleni, revu quelques erreurs ( des targets non scalées et des erreurs de saisie). Les résultats des moyennes nationales sont plus cohérents et stables, en particulier Bolshoi n'apparaît significativement que dans les pops du NE. Même mon père n'en a pas un poil (snif... saleté de dilution). Cela dit les oracles 4mix sont toujours plus ou moins pourris, mais je n'y peux rien. Si cela intéresse quelqu'un je peux publier les nouvelles feuilles de références. Sinon j'enterrerai définitivement ce truc.
    En North alom, de North venom
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    ,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
    WHG:Kivisaare3,0.127481881379277,0.10053741243935, 0.162539008917859,0.180880866870988,0.096017968318 4351,0.0527103346602922,0.00235010638057089,0.0184 607692147429,0.0546078645434886,-0.0225972777121493,-0.00584598323637692,-0.00839253001186174,0.0322593691816812,-0.0165147207060852,0.0328443127496984,0.0297000686 867893,-0.00925726741538776,0.00253377189186399,-0.00351954542519343,0.0296392165888372,0.039305638 9084314,0.0154565924446496,-0.0257587730686071,-0.107726072610116,0.00550848799581155
    WHG:Veibri4,0.130896574630507,0.0934287065092951,0 .159899164225458,0.188955905570585,0.0821692228878 916,0.0655393050008924,-0.00540524467531304,0.0173069711388215,0.032928337 7958864,-0.0406386526597524,-0.00146149580909423,-0.0179839928825609,0.0277995485574856,-0.00894547371579616,0.0312156691422753,0.034208114 8267483,-0.0140814771952377,-0.000253377189186399,-0.00854746746118404,0.0402693153654243,0.037808281 2357293,0.0114997047788193,-0.0188569008588368,-0.0791678184617967,0.00299374347598454
    WHGonkalnis6,0.127481881379277,0.116785883136619,0.17 6869594390896,0.183464879254859,0.13633320501624,0 .0552203505964966,0.0101054574364548,0.03646001919 91173,0.0742421529186755,-0.00473813887512808,-0.0121791317424519,-0.0167850600237235,0.0249749954954951,0.0017890947 4315923,0.0317585503447497,0.0514447618324743,0.00 782304288624318,0.00278714908105038,-0.00842176941028428,0.050274114213977,0.0802334152 956236,0.0170640780588932,-0.0400555083602742,-0.129536384849972,0.0159267152922378
    WHGonkalnis7,0.132034805714251,0.106630588950826,0.16 9327180984035,0.186694894734698,0.100941966693739, 0.0527103346602922,0.0110454999886832,0.0193838076 754801,0.0456088157048613,-0.032620263794151,0.00308538004142115,-0.0230794575326198,0.0214071389961386,0.0046791708 6672415,0.025379696215676,0.0393791089284661,-0.0136903250509256,-0.00291383767564358,-0.00402233762879249,0.0278883767903405,0.052781857 9627508,0.00642994245697425,-0.0191033962949,-0.101460126552257,0.0118552241648988
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    Anatolia_N:I1585,0.121790725960559,0.1807642365071 14,-0.00150848268137225,-0.100453481422995,0.0520097328391523,-0.0418335989367398,-0.00517023403725595,-0.00669202884034431,0.0353826238427847,0.075627985 8914675,0.00876897485456538,0.0170847932384328,-0.0212584783086655,0.00302769879611562,-0.042209013492381,-0.000132589592351738,0.0329871641703254,-0.00304052627023678,0.0135753894971747,-0.00600287930913158,-0.00623899030292563,0.00469880410317349,-0.00480666100323291,0.00240997925302273,-0.009100980166993
    CHG:KK1,0.0910584866994834,0.102568471276509,-0.0833436681458166,-0.00323001547983907,-0.0861699715678263,0.0206379088087917,0.0249111276 340514,-0.00184607692147429,-0.12823644595044,-0.0747168053385582,-0.006333148506075,0.0239786571767478,-0.0548557936776053,0.00440392552162273,0.026601178 9212433,-0.0327496293108792,0.0238602808030417,-0.0134289910268791,-0.0222485550092585,0.0347666759987204,0.0338153274 418569,-0.00704820615476023,0.00653212905567549,-0.0257867780073432,-0.00203574556366949
    Levant_N:I0867,0.0728467893595867,0.17264000115848 ,-0.030923894968131,-0.147934708976629,0.0344679886271305,-0.0686071022562533,-0.0164507446639962,-0.0119994999895829,0.0726059622207433,0.0488392776 359356,0.010555247510125,-0.0130383948398566,0.0294348161196906,-0.00825736035304261,-0.0248368150132017,0.00729242757934558,0.020991831 7447525,-0.00861482443233755,-0.00465082788329132,0.0237613972653125,-0.000374339418175538,0.00445149862405909,0.0001232 47718031613,-0.00530195435665001,-0.00682573512524475
    Levant_N:I1699,0.067155633940869,0.168577883484163 ,-0.0226272402205837,-0.150841722908484,0.0286207405564566,-0.0716748995116143,-0.0138656276453682,-0.0177684903691901,0.0777190581517815,0.0377228748 904428,0.006333148506075,-0.013338128054566,0.0325566905566275,-0.00027524534510142,-0.0149292330680447,0.00848573391051122,-0.000782304288624318,-0.00772800427018516,-0.0135753894971747,0.0123809385750839,-0.0101071642907395,0.0101395246436902,0.0029579452 3275871,0.00313297302892955,-0.00203574556366949
    Morocco_Iberomaurusian:TAF009,-0.162767,0.07718,-0.024513,-0.079135,0.009848,-0.047969,-0.052877,0.020538,0.13294,0.002005,0.025333,-0.026676,0.057978,-0.052985,0.072882,-0.034076,0.002347,-0.05625,-0.130475,0.04152,-0.026204,-0.120314,0.067909,-0.016508,0.012334
    Morocco_Iberomaurusian:TAF010,-0.193499,0.083273,-0.03017,-0.088502,0.034776,-0.055499,-0.076378,0.019384,0.163619,0.008565,0.02111,-0.030573,0.07879,-0.046104,0.077496,-0.046141,-0.00665,-0.069805,-0.144176,0.036518,-0.042924,-0.129217,0.07629,-0.015303,0.018322
    Morocco_Iberomaurusian:TAF011,-0.194638,0.085304,-0.021873,-0.088825,0.026774,-0.059961,-0.072148,0.019845,0.161165,0.002551,0.016564,-0.035818,0.080574,-0.051196,0.066367,-0.037523,0.012126,-0.071199,-0.14493,0.035767,-0.041427,-0.12662,0.068279,-0.011447,0.018441
    Morocco_Iberomaurusian:TAF013,-0.196914,0.082258,-0.026398,-0.088502,0.032314,-0.057173,-0.074733,0.017768,0.156665,0.002369,0.02111,-0.036717,0.077898,-0.052159,0.072746,-0.038584,0.000913,-0.069552,-0.141285,0.039894,-0.035687,-0.125384,0.075428,-0.011206,0.020477
    Morocco_Iberomaurusian:TAF014,-0.201467,0.079211,-0.018479,-0.083011,0.034468,-0.055499,-0.076848,0.014538,0.162596,0.002005,0.020461,-0.029374,0.078344,-0.054223,0.066503,-0.025192,0.017602,-0.063724,-0.151215,0.04127,-0.042176,-0.126126,0.077153,-0.014339,0.012693
    Ethiopia_4500BP:mota,-0.511066,0.043668,0.000754,0.000969,-0.00277,-0.011435,0.050997,-0.045229,0.089172,-0.087838,-0.012991,-0.002997,-0.031219,0.000688,0.02158,-0.029965,0.027772,0.039273,0.00176,-0.009004,0.000374,0.006183,-0.003451,-0.00241,-0.000838
    Bolshoy_Oleni_Ostrov:BOO001,0.084229,-0.150298,0.121433,0.098515,-0.066782,-0.003347,-0.003995,-0.000923,0.002863,-0.045923,0.027119,-0.008542,0.021407,-0.052159,-0.0076,0.006232,-0.004824,0.003167,-0.000503,0.003377,-0.010981,0.007914,0.005793,-0.007591,-0.001916
    Bolshoy_Oleni_Ostrov:BOO002,0.093335,-0.14319,0.122187,0.105945,-0.05878,0.001673,-0.00282,0.007846,-0.00859,-0.044648,0.038486,-0.010491,0.020367,-0.052572,0.002579,0.006099,-0.000913,0.004054,-0.003645,0.004377,0.001497,0.009521,0.003574,-0.008314,0.002155
    Bolshoy_Oleni_Ostrov:BOO003,0.097888,-0.129988,0.121056,0.103683,-0.059088,-0.000837,-0.00235,0.003231,0.005727,-0.053577,0.035401,-0.01079,0.023786,-0.049544,-0.005972,0.009016,-0.003912,-0.001394,-0.004022,0.001751,0.007112,0.00643,0.006655,-0.018436,0.001557
    Bolshoy_Oleni_Ostrov:BOO004,0.088782,-0.144205,0.112759,0.112405,-0.059703,0.000558,-0.003995,-0.005538,0.000409,-0.043372,0.026632,-0.014987,0.024826,-0.049131,-0.001493,0.009812,-0.001695,-0.002027,-0.006662,-0.005253,0.006863,0.003091,0.007641,-0.009037,0.001916
    Bolshoy_Oleni_Ostrov:BOO005,0.092197,-0.136081,0.121433,0.114666,-0.061858,-0.001952,-0.00658,-0.005077,-0.001432,-0.040274,0.035888,-0.009142,0.021407,-0.04514,-0.002036,0.012596,-0.004303,0.004687,0,0.008254,0.005615,0.004699,0.0 08751,-0.022533,-0.000958
    Bolshoy_Oleni_Ostrov:BOO006,0.080814,-0.207168,0.120301,0.085272,-0.076322,-0.010598,0.003055,0.001846,0.002659,-0.03991,0.042708,-0.008692,0.019772,-0.04748,-0.015065,0.001193,0.000913,0.003547,-0.00176,-5e-04,0.000374,0.009274,0.000739,-0.009399,0.003233

    En North alom, de North venom
    En North fum naiz, en North manom

    (Roman de Rou, Wace, 1160-1170)

  20. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to anglesqueville For This Useful Post:

     JMcB (04-30-2019),  Ruderico (04-30-2019)

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