Results 1 to 6 of 6

Thread: Two ancient human genomes reveal Polynesian ancestry among the indigenous Botocudos

  1. #1

    Two ancient human genomes reveal Polynesian ancestry among the indigenous Botocudos

    This paper is from 2014, but hasn't been posted here yet.

    Two ancient human genomes reveal Polynesian ancestry among the indigenous Botocudos of Brazil (2014)

    It is uncertain however if there was a mislabeling although it is stated to be unlikely. However, Polynesians enslaved and those employed are known to have been present in Latin America and the Americas in general - another example outside of Latin America being the presence of Hawaiians/Owyhees in Washington/Oregon Territory and British Columbia. We know of intermarriage between these various Polynesian peoples who arrived both free and enslaved in Americas and the local American peoples they lived amongst.

    These genetically Polynesian individuals (Bot15 and Bot17) were identified as Botocudos and were found in the river Doce in Minas Gerais. They seemingly don't show the other 2 indviduals for whom they had in their study (Bot65 and Bot13) who hailed from Cachoeiro de Itapemirim (Espirtu Santo) and Aldeamento do Mutum (Minas Gerais). Bot13, a female, could possibly also have been a Botocudo (a member of the Naknenuk).

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to VytautusofAukstaitija For This Useful Post:

     Hurricane (05-08-2019)

  3. #2
    Registered Users
    Posts
    2,127
    Sex

    The study is available online without having to download a PDF at https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...60982214012743 or https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cub.2014.09.078

    There was a thread about the samples at https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....ns-from-Brazil!

    They were also discussed at https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....South-American

    And discussed in yet another thread at https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....f-the-Americas

  4. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to ArmandoR1b For This Useful Post:

     Hurricane (05-08-2019),  pmokeefe (04-21-2019),  Power77 (04-25-2019),  VytautusofAukstaitija (04-21-2019)

  5. #3
    Bronze Class Member
    Posts
    1,949
    Sex
    Location
    Krasnoyarsk
    Ethnicity
    Munda

    Turkmenistan Suriname South Africa Costa Rica Norway Australia
    I asked about this yesterday. I find it very hard to believe that such a SE Asian-like population could exist in the Americas this way. The few remaining Botocudos alive now should be tested to see if the connection exists.

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to Censored For This Useful Post:

     VytautusofAukstaitija (06-30-2019)

  7. #4
    Registered Users
    Posts
    2,127
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by Censored View Post
    I asked about this yesterday. I find it very hard to believe that such a SE Asian-like population could exist in the Americas this way. The few remaining Botocudos alive now should be tested to see if the connection exists.
    According to the post here and here the Botocudos were not Brazilians but two Māori skulls from the Wellington Colonial Museum, New Zealand, (now Te Papa) sent in the 1880s. So that is really what needs to be proven beyond a doubt because that is most likely the case since it makes so much sense. Testing Botucodos would do nothing since they aren't actually related to the Māori.

  8. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to ArmandoR1b For This Useful Post:

     palamede (06-30-2019),  Piquerobi (06-29-2019),  RCO (06-29-2019),  VytautusofAukstaitija (06-30-2019)

  9. #5
    Bronze Class Member
    Posts
    1,949
    Sex
    Location
    Krasnoyarsk
    Ethnicity
    Munda

    Turkmenistan Suriname South Africa Costa Rica Norway Australia
    Quote Originally Posted by ArmandoR1b View Post
    According to the post here and here the Botocudos were not Brazilians but two Māori skulls from the Wellington Colonial Museum, New Zealand, (now Te Papa) sent in the 1880s. So that is really what needs to be proven beyond a doubt because that is most likely the case since it makes so much sense. Testing Botucodos would do nothing since they aren't actually related to the Māori.
    Yes that’s the point, seeing the likely massive genetic distance between real Botocudos and the alleged samples will prove without a doubt that the latter came from a different source.

  10. #6
    Registered Users
    Posts
    2,127
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by Censored View Post
    Yes that’s the point, seeing the likely massive genetic distance between real Botocudos and the alleged samples will prove without a doubt that the latter came from a different source.
    For anyone that wants to believe that Bot15 and Bot17 were actually born and raised in Brazil, or migrated there, and had descendants they could easily say a lack of Australasian/Polynesian DNA in modern Botocudos is because those specific people aren't the descendants of Bot15 and Bot17 and finding the specific descendants is too hard or that even more indigenous people need to be tested.

    Maybe I should not have stated that it needs to be proven beyond a doubt that the skulls are two Māori skulls from the Wellington Colonial Museum, New Zealand because that might not be possible either since the strontium isotope ratios look to be misleading. See the SOM for isotope testing. So the best thing to go by is Occam's razor. The most likely scenario that there was a mislabeling of the skulls and they are originally Māori skulls from the Wellington Colonial Museum, New Zealand. Human errors happen and intentional fraud has happened in the past, there is no proof that the skulls didn't come from the Wellington Colonial Museum, all of the DNA of Bot15 and Bot17 is Australasian/Polynesian, the isotope testing doesn't prove that Bot15 and Bot17 weren't born and raised in Polynesia, and there are no other indications of migration from Polynesia to South America are all reasons to believe they aren't native to Brazil and never migrated to Brazil.

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to ArmandoR1b For This Useful Post:

     Piquerobi (06-30-2019)

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 118
    Last Post: 06-27-2019, 04:51 PM
  2. Digging ancient signals out of modern human genomes
    By firemonkey in forum Ancient (aDNA)
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 04-06-2019, 02:13 PM
  3. 137 ancient human genomes from across the Eurasian steppes
    By rozenfeld in forum Ancient (aDNA)
    Replies: 259
    Last Post: 08-31-2018, 07:30 PM
  4. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-18-2016, 09:08 PM
  5. Replies: 454
    Last Post: 02-09-2015, 02:24 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •