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Thread: Gene Flow Between Southern and South-eastern Asia

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    Quote Originally Posted by FrostAssassin0701 View Post
    Yeah, it's Poi's tool
    How do you get Poi's tool? Do you need to download it somewhere?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tsakhur View Post
    How do you get Poi's tool? Do you need to download it somewhere?
    http://185.144.156.77:3000/

    Just use this link

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kulin View Post
    Not sure about Bonda, but Juang have around 12-14% West Eurasian, while Gonds are significantly more West Eurasian at 30-34%. Gonds are Dravidian speaking from Central India, and not Austroasiatic like the former two.
    How did you figure out that the Juang will be around 12-14% West Eurasian? If I remember correctly, the Bonda cluster close to the Juang on PCA, so they should similar amounts of admix or lesser amount than the Juang.

    Actually David on Eurogenes also mentioned that some Gonds like Gond1 and Gond2 samples are almost pure AASI. That these Gonds would be less than 20% West Eurasian, like only 15% Iran Neo and minor ANE/AG3/MA1. However Davidski thinks that the AG3/MA1 is just the algorithmic correction that there are no perfect references for ASI in his data, also
    some of their Iran Neo score might actually be AASI.

    Gond1, he is referring to in G25 spreadsheet
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FSz...ew?usp=sharing

    Source: scroll down to comment by Davidski in March 19, 2018 at 4.45 am. It end at the last comment by David in March 19, 2018 at 9:17 am

    http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2018/0...ssion.html?m=1
    Last edited by Tsakhur; 04-22-2019 at 05:01 AM.

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    The group 'Kol' which is supposed to be Austro-Asiatic(but doesn't seem so, at all on paper) matches 1-1 with Dravidian middle castes and even has a strange NE Euro signal on Harappa. I am not sure whether this group was mislabelled.

    Kol
    SI BALOCH CAUC NE EURO SE ASIAN
    61% 30% 1% 3% 1%

    Lack of SE Asian, and the fact that this sample has more baloch than mainstream caste Indians from the east(non-Brahmin Bengalis for example) makes me think that this is either mislabelled or that there is another group from non-eastern india with the same name.


    Oh this is confusing
    The term "Kol people" or Kolarian is used in India to refer to some of the Austroasiatic tribal groups of India. In eastern and northeastern India, Kol is a generic umbrella term which includes certain closely related tribal groups such as the Munda, Ho and Santal as well as the Khasi, Jaintia in Bihar, Jharkhand, Chhattisgarh, Madhya Pradesh, Assam, Meghalaya, Tripura, North Bengal, Bangladesh, and Nepal.
    another source
    hese tribes are concentrated in central India and the northeastern regions of the Deccan plateau. They speak related languages described as "Kolarian," which are known today as the Munda languages. The tribes include the Santal, Munda, and Ho.But in modern usage, the term "Kol" is used in a more restricted sense to identify a specific tribe among these Munda-speaking peoples.
    Last edited by client; 04-22-2019 at 05:46 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by client View Post
    The group 'Kol' which is supposed to be Austro-Asiatic(but doesn't seem so, at all on paper) matches 1-1 with Dravidian middle castes and even has a strange NE Euro signal on Harappa. I am not sure whether this group was mislabelled.

    Kol
    SI BALOCH CAUC NE EURO SE ASIAN
    61% 30% 1% 3% 1%

    Lack of SE Asian, and the fact that this sample has more baloch than mainstream caste Indians from the east(non-Brahmin Bengalis for example) makes me think that this is either mislabelled or that there is another group from non-eastern india with the same name.


    Oh this is confusing


    another source
    "Kol" in G25 was based on the academic samples and the study listed them as "Indo European", so those Kols in G25 were not AustroAsiatic speakers. And their genetics is not like other AAs either.
    Hidden Content | Hidden Content
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    To include your G25 coordinates and/or sponsorship support - email: Hidden Content
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    Can anyone answer else reply to the OP?

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    Quote Originally Posted by poi View Post
    "Kol" in G25 was based on the academic samples and the study listed them as "Indo European", so those Kols in G25 were not AustroAsiatic speakers. And their genetics is not like other AAs either.
    Ah, they were mislabelled as Austro-Asiatic elsewhere, perhaps not on the academic samples. Yes, definitely non-AA.

    Interesting that AA tribes like Asur do not have elevated farmer ancestry given their extremely high incidence of J2b2-M241. Founder effect, presumably.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tsakhur View Post
    How did you figure out that the Juang will be around 12-14% West Eurasian? If I remember correctly, the Bonda cluster close to the Juang on PCA, so they should similar amounts of admix or lesser amount than the Juang.

    Actually David on Eurogenes also mentioned that some Gonds like Gond1 and Gond2 samples are almost pure AASI. That these Gonds would be less than 20% West Eurasian, like only 15% Iran Neo and minor ANE/AG3/MA1. However Davidski thinks that the AG3/MA1 is just the algorithmic correction that there are no perfect references for ASI in his data, also
    some of their Iran Neo score might actually be AASI.

    Gond1, he is referring to in G25 spreadsheet
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FSz...ew?usp=sharing

    Source: scroll down to comment by Davidski in March 19, 2018 at 4.45 am. It end at the last comment by David in March 19, 2018 at 9:17 am

    http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2018/0...ssion.html?m=1
    I estimate their AASI by multiply their harappa 'South Indian' by 0.8, then using the remainder and other West Eurasian components to calculate the total. This matches what I got when modelling them with nmonte as well.

    I'm not sure if David is correct here, Gonds shouldn't be 'fully AASI'.

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    I just modeled the Thai average using Poi's nmonte runner.

    The model below shows the Indian mixture in Thai. You can see that there is preference for Velama (a mid caste community from Andhra), in contrast to the Dharkar, (an artisan community from Uttar Pradesh). This represents the fact that the transmission of Indian/Hindu culture, and especially genetic influence into South-east Asia was mainly through South India. The Tamil Cholas, especially had a very big impact, as well as Sinhalese later during the Buddhist age culturally. This is reflected in the region's scripts, motifs and architecture. Though a very big North Indian was also obviously felt through spread of Buddhism during the Mauryan empire, but the region was already Hindu prior to this and there was no migration or genetic change.

    "sample": "Thai:Average",
    "fit": 2.1747,
    "Dai": 78.33,
    "LAO_Hoabinhian": 12.5,
    "Velamas": 8.33,
    "Dharkar": 0.83


    This next model represents the Thai migrations into the land of the Mon-Khmer people that earlier inhabited Thailand, who were most likely very Cambodian like in genetics, while the migrating Thai are represented by the Dai. Thailand was obviously subject to a significant Han migration later from Southern China, so Han is used to account for that.

    "sample": "Thai:Average",
    "fit": 1.0757,
    "Cambodian": 44.17,
    "Dai": 33.33,
    "Velamas": 11.67,
    "Han": 10.83

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kulin View Post
    I just modeled the Thai average using Poi's nmonte runner.

    The model below shows the Indian mixture in Thai. You can see that there is preference for Velama (a mid caste community from Andhra), in contrast to the Dharkar, (an artisan community from Uttar Pradesh). This represents the fact that the transmission of Indian/Hindu culture, and especially genetic influence into South-east Asia was mainly through South India. The Tamil Cholas, especially had a very big impact, as well as Sinhalese later during the Buddhist age culturally. This is reflected in the region's scripts, motifs and architecture. Though a very big North Indian was also obviously felt through spread of Buddhism during the Mauryan empire, but the region was already Hindu prior to this and there was no migration or genetic change.

    "sample": "Thai:Average",
    "fit": 2.1747,
    "Dai": 78.33,
    "LAO_Hoabinhian": 12.5,
    "Velamas": 8.33,
    "Dharkar": 0.83


    This next model represents the Thai migrations into the land of the Mon-Khmer people that earlier inhabited Thailand, who were most likely very Cambodian like in genetics, while the migrating Thai are represented by the Dai. Thailand was obviously subject to a significant Han migration later from Southern China, so Han is used to account for that.

    "sample": "Thai:Average",
    "fit": 1.0757,
    "Cambodian": 44.17,
    "Dai": 33.33,
    "Velamas": 11.67,
    "Han": 10.83
    Something I’ve noticed is that the Burmese seem to have more North Indian related ancestry than Cambodians/Thais. The model I ran had them at 4% “Uttar Pradesh” and 8% Velamas which is in contrast to the Thais being almost only Velamas. Could this reflect some extra Bengali ancestry in the Burmese that Thais/Cambodians don’t have?

    Edit: Here's a model I ran but I'm not sure if Thai IA is hiding some South Asian, which would explain why it seems relatively low. The Dharkar and Velama amount is identical though.
    "sample": "Burmese:Average",
    "fit": 2.0745,
    "Thailand_IA_Averaged": 50.83,
    "Tibetan_Averaged": 40.83,
    "Dharkar_Averaged": 4.17,
    "Velamas_Averaged": 4.17,
    Last edited by FrostAssassin0701; 04-25-2019 at 02:59 AM.

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