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Thread: Eastern england

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    Eastern england

    What is the amount of i1 and r1bu106 in eastern england?Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by tjlowery87 View Post
    What is the amount of i1 and r1bu106 in eastern england?Thanks
    I believe the levels of I1 in Eastern England are similar to that of parts of Scandinavia and R-U106 is similar to what is seen in the Netherlands, Germany and Denmark. I'm not sure of the specific values. I've seen some sources say 20-40% however is that I1 + R-U106 or just one of those haplogroups alone?

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    Y chromosome data was collected as part of POBI, and that's likely the largest reference population. However, it's not easy to find a lot of details - most of the publications and newsletters are more into autosomal DNA data, facial recognition, etc. One of the early papers here https://www.nature.com/articles/ejhg2011127 does have some regional breakdown although it's very basic in terms of haplogroup (at least what is reported in that paper) - from their first dataset, the proportions of haplogroups are in Table 2 on page 206. The paper doesn't separate I1 from I2 or the subclade of R1b from each other - just R1a1 from R1. From that paper, the relative proportion I is highest in the N region (Cumbria, Yorkshire, Northeast) and second highest in the E region (Sussex, Kent, Norfolk and Lincolnshire). Although compared to other regions, the N region sampled twice as much as any of the other regions. They also note later in the paper that the sample size of the Y chromosome data was too small to give good confidence intervals (ie, many more male sample from East than West).

    The first POBI newsletter from 2006 has some Y chromosome regional breakdown https://www.peopleofthebritishisles....sletter1_0.pdf on pages 3-4 although the information is again not very detailed - only goes to M170 in resolution which includes I2 as well as I1, pie charts for different regions, mostly to show the higher R1a (M17) in the Orkneys.

    This presentation would probably have been interesting http://www.whodoyouthinkyouarelive.c...V2SR7z9KnHdqVo but can't find anything other than the abstract.

    There's quite a few geographical projects at FTDNA such as English Mapping, British Isles by County, England GB Groups EIJ (although despite the group title, includes other haplogroups as well and is pretty active). Although bear in mind that a lot of the geographical data in these projects are self reported. You also may need to join the project to see anything - the English Mapping one has a note that they removed project results from public display on February 8th.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tjlowery87 View Post
    What is the amount of i1 and r1bu106 in eastern england?Thanks
    Here's what I got a few years ago from this personal study
    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....Y-DNA-projects


    Y-DNA R-Z49>Z142>Z12222>FGC12378>FGC12401>FGC12384
    Ancestry: 37% English, 26% Scot/Ulster Scot, 14% Welsh, 14% German 3% Ireland, 3% Nordic, 2% French & Dutch, 1% India

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    Obviously there are many historic (and prehistoric) sources for how U106 and I1 got into England. A couple of possibilities





    The top one would imply that the Angles were mostly I1 and Saxons U106. Until we get some y-dna from Angles it's just guessing. But we know there's lots of U106 in the area of Old Saxony.

    I've read that the Danes from Danelaw era made little autosomal impact on England. The problem with this is that it's very difficult to tell Danes from English autosomally. They are very similar.
    But maybe they did from a y-dna perspective.

    Or maybe it was a combination of both sources plus others.
    Last edited by MitchellSince1893; 04-25-2019 at 03:45 AM.
    Y-DNA R-Z49>Z142>Z12222>FGC12378>FGC12401>FGC12384
    Ancestry: 37% English, 26% Scot/Ulster Scot, 14% Welsh, 14% German 3% Ireland, 3% Nordic, 2% French & Dutch, 1% India

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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellSince1893 View Post
    Obviously there are many historic sources for how U106 and I1 got into England. A couple of possibilities





    The top one would imply that the Angles were mostly I1 and Saxons U106. Until we get some y-dna from Angles it's just guessing. But we know there's lots of U106 in the area of Old Saxony.

    I've read that the Danes from Danelaw era made little autosomal impact on England. The problem with this is that it's very difficult to tell Danes from English autosomally. They are very similar.
    But maybe they did from a y-dna perspective.

    Or maybe it was a combination of both sources plus others.
    Well, I mean they do have 1 single Northumbrian who was I-DF29. Northumbria was settled by Angles. But again, that's one single sample

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    What's the matter with mtDNA origins? At the present time, my U5b2b2/G228A points to East Anglia. And I noticed (a long time ago) the there is one in that category in the Danish project, although with several mutations more than mine in the control region.

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    MtDNA tends to mutate so slowly that it's unlikely to point to a specific origin in many or most cases, although it might be suggestive. So far, too few studies get mtDNA results that are specific enough to be helpful too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by msmarjoribanks View Post
    MtDNA tends to mutate so slowly that it's unlikely to point to a specific origin in many or most cases, although it might be suggestive. So far, too few studies get mtDNA results that are specific enough to be helpful too.
    IMHO above all else the biggest issue is that it's far less studied from a genetic genealogy standpoint because it isn't prone to the massive founder effects and therefore isn't as easily mapped to historic and prehistoric population movements.

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    Quote Originally Posted by msmarjoribanks View Post
    So far, too few studies get mtDNA results that are specific enough to be helpful too.
    That's really at the heart of it.
    If analyses covered the whole genome, we might be much further along.
    What happens is that researchers on limited budgets think that there is no point in going to greater depths because nothing interesting has yet been found. That logic becomes circular, with nothing interesting having been found because nobody is testing it.
    I am not saying that every sample should have FGS.
    But when none are analysed => surprise! no data.

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