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Thread: Who can help me model my grandmother to accurately estimate her African ancestry?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sikeliot View Post
    These are the slave trade regions. I think what you pick up for my grandmother corresponds to what is "West Central Africa" here, which actually went quite far inland into the Congo. The Portuguese took most of their slaves from this region, especially from the Congo river southward, and this region contributed about 50% of all enslaved Africans to the New World.

    I do believe there must be something in there also from further north in West Africa, too, but to know for sure we would need to test relatives further back and unfortunately they are deceased.

    That is a possibility, given she's picking up Yoruba as well, but it seems that Bantu_SW is closer in distance. So, there's also a good possibility that her Subsaharan African ancestry is composed of both West African and Southwest African.

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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kulin View Post
    That is a possibility, given she's picking up Yoruba as well, but it seems that Bantu_SW is closer in distance. So, there's also a good possibility that her Subsaharan African ancestry is composed of both West African and Southwest African.
    It's funny because when 23andme said Senegal, my relatives INSISTED it was wrong because the Portuguese should, in their view, have been more likely to send Angolans and Congolese across the Atlantic as Senegal was instead under French colonization. Maybe they were onto something.

    Yoruba came from "Bight of Benin" region and not coincidentally the capital of Benin was founded by the Portuguese and named Porto Novo.

    Mozambican seems unlikely given the lack of SE Bantu.

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  5. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sikeliot View Post
    It's funny because when 23andme said Senegal, my relatives INSISTED it was wrong because the Portuguese should, in their view, have been more likely to send Angolans and Congolese across the Atlantic as Senegal was instead under French colonization. Maybe they were onto something.

    Yoruba came from "Bight of Benin" region and not coincidentally the capital of Benin was founded by the Portuguese and named Porto Novo.

    Mozambican seems unlikely given the lack of SE Bantu.
    Have you tried the Ethiohelix calculators on Gedmatch? They might not be accurate for non-Africans but might be interesting to give a try if you haven't

  6. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kulin View Post
    I think Sorcelow's Ancient K18 calculator does a good job at the ancient

    "sample": "Custom:LorettaK_scaled",
    "fit": 3.0012,
    "European_Farmer_k18": 45,
    "Steppe_k18": 27.5,
    "Anatolian_Farmer_k18": 21.67,
    "Baltic_HG_k18": 1.67,
    "Iberomaurusian_k18": 1.67,
    "Sub_Saharan_k18": 1.67,
    "CHG/IranN": 0.83

    A Portuguese for reference with the same components

    "sample": "Customortuguese",
    "fit": 2.0259,
    "European_Farmer_k18": 45,
    "Steppe_k18": 29.17,
    "Anatolian_Farmer_k18": 20,
    "Iberomaurusian_k18": 2.5,
    "Baltic_HG_k18": 0.83,
    "CHG/IranN": 0.83,
    "Natufian_k18": 0.83,
    "San_k18": 0.83,

    Notice the lack of Subsaharan in the Portuguese average.
    Our average also has proportionally much more Iberomaurusian. Averages are also less noisy than individual samples. I'm not 100% sure that SSA is real, if it is it's probably too small to be reliably measured with these models/tools.

    Edit: I suggest asking Huijbregts personally, he can probably help more than anyone else here
    Edit2: Her unscaled coordinates are virtually at the same distance to Bantu SW than the Portuguese average, but simple penalised models using modern pops do see it pop up in the result

    [1] "distance%=1.0053"

    Portuguese

    Spanish_Pais_Vasco,56.8
    Greek_Crete,15.6
    Berber_Morocco_ERR,11.8
    Scottish,10.6
    Swedish,5.2


    [1] "distance%=1.6483"

    LorettaK

    Spanish_Pais_Vasco,68.6
    Berber_Morocco_ERR,10.6
    Greek_Crete,10.6
    Scottish,4.4
    Swedish,3.4
    Bantu_S.W.,2.4


    [1] "distance%=1.5395"

    Ruderico

    Spanish_Pais_Vasco,76.2
    Berber_Morocco_ERR,11
    Scottish,7
    Greek_Crete,4.6
    Swedish,1.2




    So yeah, I'd probably ask Huijbregts for help
    Last edited by Ruderico; 05-02-2019 at 12:53 PM.
    YDNA - E-Y31991>PF4428>Y134104>Y168273 Domingos Rodrigues, b. circa 1690 Hidden Content , Viana do Castelo, Portugal - Stonemason, miller.
    mtDNA - H20. Maria Josefa de Almeida, b. circa 1750 Hidden Content , Porto, Portugal

    Hidden Content
    Global25 PCA West Eurasia dataset Hidden Content

    [1] "distance%=1.6157"
    Ruderico

    Iberia_IA,55.2
    Gaelic,26.2
    ITA_Rome_Imperial,8.8
    North_African,8.6
    Levant_Roman,1.2

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  8. #25
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    Hi Sikeliot,

    Do you have any evidence of African ancestry or you reached that conclusion because of that small percentage in the scores and pictures where you assumed that relatives looked "darker" than you expected?

    I have seen many old pictures and for those living in rural areas or at least working or spending most of their time outdoors, they would for sure look much darker than the few posh bourgeois .

    Both my parents happen to have around 1.5 % African ancestry. It seems to fit the average in the most Western Spanish regions.

    I would not discard a more recent African ancestor but I just suggest that perhaps that contribution to her ancestry is much, much older and as far as I know, very common.
    Do you have a question or topic about genetics in Spain and/or prefer to use Spanish language? Visit the new subforum!

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  9. #26
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    Below a spreadsheet with population averages for Eurogenes K15. If you check the spaniards, you'll see that Western regions give SSA values close to 1% and they drop as you move towards the North East.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

    When running Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15 we get the highest values:

    I score a significant 2.13%, my father 1.79% and my mother 1.91%. We are all Western Andalusians and I suspect we are probably the area with the highest SSA score of Spain but as Andalusian data is always provided as a whole, its average is lower because western Andalusians have a much lower percentage.
    Last edited by Shadogowah; 05-02-2019 at 02:21 PM.
    Do you have a question or topic about genetics in Spain and/or prefer to use Spanish language? Visit the new subforum!

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  11. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadogowah View Post
    Below a spreadsheet with population averages for Eurogenes K15. If you check the spaniards, you'll see that Western regions give SSA values close to 1% and they drop as you move towards the North East.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

    When running Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15 we get the highest values:

    I score a significant 2.13%, my father 1.79% and my mother 1.91%. We are all Western Andalusians and I suspect we are probably the area with the highest SSA score of Spain but as Andalusian data is always provided as a whole, its average is lower because western Andalusians have a much lower percentage.
    Those values are because of the lack of better proxies for north African ancestry, which we all have, particularly us in the West. GEDmatch calculators are kind of outdated by now, I guess
    YDNA - E-Y31991>PF4428>Y134104>Y168273 Domingos Rodrigues, b. circa 1690 Hidden Content , Viana do Castelo, Portugal - Stonemason, miller.
    mtDNA - H20. Maria Josefa de Almeida, b. circa 1750 Hidden Content , Porto, Portugal

    Hidden Content
    Global25 PCA West Eurasia dataset Hidden Content

    [1] "distance%=1.6157"
    Ruderico

    Iberia_IA,55.2
    Gaelic,26.2
    ITA_Rome_Imperial,8.8
    North_African,8.6
    Levant_Roman,1.2

  12. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruderico View Post
    Those values are because of the lack of better proxies for north African ancestry, which we all have, particularly us in the West. GEDmatch calculators are kind of outdated by now, I guess
    Come on, don't destroy the bits of exoticism in my results!
    Do you have a question or topic about genetics in Spain and/or prefer to use Spanish language? Visit the new subforum!

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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadogowah View Post
    Come on, don't destroy the bits of exoticism in my results!
    The North African in my grandmothers result still shows up but she needs extra SSA of course. North Africa may or may not hide your SSA.
    Last edited by Sikeliot; 05-02-2019 at 04:01 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadogowah View Post
    Hi Sikeliot,

    Do you have any evidence of African ancestry or you reached that conclusion because of that small percentage in the scores and pictures where you assumed that relatives looked "darker" than you expected?

    I have seen many old pictures and for those living in rural areas or at least working or spending most of their time outdoors, they would for sure look much darker than the few posh bourgeois .

    Both my parents happen to have around 1.5 % African ancestry. It seems to fit the average in the most Western Spanish regions.

    I would not discard a more recent African ancestor but I just suggest that perhaps that contribution to her ancestry is much, much older and as far as I know, very common.
    She has a Cape Verdean ancestor. This explains SSA showing up for her even on calculators where mainland Iberians don't get it. And on GEDmatch she's pushing 5% SSA. It also shows up on every commercial test and her cousin scored the same.

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