Page 1 of 69 1231151 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 685

Thread: DNA of the Chieftains of Ireland, Scottish Clan Chieftains and Kings of South Wales

  1. #1
    Registered Users
    Posts
    248
    Sex

    DNA of the Chieftains of Ireland, Scottish Clan Chieftains and Kings of South Wales

    This thread is an attempt to carry out a comprehensive analysis of the L21 Celtic bloodlines that may have spawned the various Royal lines from earliest times until the eventual collapse of Celtic society. We will look at existing claimants and weigh up the merits of these based on detailed examination of the evidence presented and also look at any new research of ancient lines based on the latest SNP findings.

  2. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to oneillabu For This Useful Post:

     Angoliga (06-05-2017),  CherylAnn (09-02-2018),  Mag Uidhir 6 (12-11-2013),  Mikewww (12-13-2013),  N21163 (08-13-2015),  Phuqit (12-24-2015),  RoudellmcGraceville (07-05-2014),  Sea Warrior (02-04-2016)

  3. #2
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    1,324
    Sex
    Location
    Sault Ste Marie, Ontario, Canada
    Ethnicity
    Irish Canadian
    Nationality
    Canada
    Y-DNA (P)
    L513->Z23516>BY11142
    mtDNA (M)
    H1bd

    Canada Ireland Scotland England Ireland County Tipperary Canada Old Newfoundland
    interesting idea, I hope it works...and lets remember, all you Celtic cousins, to keep the 'heat' level down eh?


    Mike
    Furthest Y line=Patrick Whealen 1816-1874, b.Tipperary Co. Ire. d. Kincardine Ont.

    Y-DNA-RL21-L513-Z23516-BY11142('lost Irish 'C' boys?')

    FTDNA=P312+ P25+ M343+ M269+ M207+ M173+ L513+ U198- U152- U106- SRY2627- P66- P107- M73- M65- M37- M222- M18- M160- M153- M126- L705- L577- L193- L159.2- L1333-
    Big-Y=Z23516+
    23&me=L21+
    E.A.= S21-, S26-, S28-, S29-, S68-
    Geno 2 (N.G.P.) H1bd+

    Whalen/Phelan DNA Surname Project
    Hidden Content

  4. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to MikeWhalen For This Useful Post:

     Mag Uidhir 6 (12-11-2013),  Phuqit (12-24-2015)

  5. #3
    Senior Member
    Posts
    239
    Sex
    Location
    Australia
    Ethnicity
    European/Irish
    Nationality
    Australian
    Y-DNA (P)
    D2a1b2a1a
    mtDNA (M)
    H2a2

    Australia Ireland
    Quote Originally Posted by oneillabu View Post
    This thread is an attempt to carry out a comprehensive analysis of the L21 Celtic bloodlines that may have spawned the various Royal lines from earliest times until the eventual collapse of Celtic society. We will look at existing claimants and weigh up the merits of these based on detailed examination of the evidence presented and also look at any new research of ancient lines based on the latest SNP findings.
    In order to verify the various claimants entitlements, won't it be necessary for them to participate? As the result of the "Flight of the Earls" (Wild Geese) the main claimants to past royal titles are now Spanish. Others are spread over western Europe.
    The knowledge of man is but a flea on the back of a camel.

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to Ian B For This Useful Post:

     Mag Uidhir 6 (12-11-2013)

  7. #4
    Banned
    Posts
    841
    Sex
    Nationality
    Australian
    Y-DNA (P)
    R-L658
    mtDNA (M)
    U6a2a

    Australia Ireland Scotland United Nations
    Quote Originally Posted by oneillabu View Post
    This thread is an attempt to carry out a comprehensive analysis of the L21 Celtic bloodlines that may have spawned the various Royal lines from earliest times until the eventual collapse of Celtic society. We will look at existing claimants and weigh up the merits of these based on detailed examination of the evidence presented and also look at any new research of ancient lines based on the latest SNP findings.
    One the DF21 thread we discussed DF21 chiefs and septs and you provided a list which (slightly modified) might be a starter to this thread:
    The McCarthy Reagh
    The O’Carroll
    The McMahon
    The O’Sullivan (Beara)
    The McGuire
    The O’Callaghan
    The O’Donaghue Mor
    Rory Oge O’Moore (seven septs of Laois)
    Lord McDonald of Islay
    Lords of Ivowen Ulster O’Neill’s

    There are many others such as Clan Colla, Fiach McHugh O’Byrne

    Is it your intention that this thread stay broad enough to include clans and septs which have no recognised chief and no claimant at the present time, which is the case with many DF21 (and probably other) septs? What we learn about one sept, with or without a chief, may have a bearing on better understanding their related septs, again with or without a chief. The checkerboard of DNA types in Munster (where many of the above surnames originate) is a case where learning about one may help with another of the same DNA type.

  8. #5
    Registered Users
    Posts
    51
    Sex
    Location
    USA
    Y-DNA (P)
    M222+ A10526+
    mtDNA (M)
    H1au

    United States of America Ireland Scotland
    Quote Originally Posted by Rory Cain View Post
    Lord McDonald of Islay
    Pretty sure I remember reading about DNA studies confirming the McDonald and McAllister lineages and I don't think they were L21.

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to RGM For This Useful Post:

     westernisles (02-11-2016)

  10. #6
    Banned
    Posts
    841
    Sex
    Nationality
    Australian
    Y-DNA (P)
    R-L658
    mtDNA (M)
    U6a2a

    Australia Ireland Scotland United Nations
    Quote Originally Posted by RGM View Post
    Pretty sure I remember reading about DNA studies confirming the McDonald and McAllister lineages and I don't think they were L21.
    I read some of those too, re the Macdonald chiefs being R1a and their clansmen being R1b, and then oneillabu recruited Lord Macdonald of Islay into the R-DF21 project on the basis of his DF5 test result which makes him L21/DF13/DF21/Z246/DF25/DF5. Yep, not all Macdonald chiefs are DF21 as oneillabu and I have already discussed in another thread. Similarly most O'Neills of Tyrone are not M222+ Ui Niall type, but then being M222_ you would know that already. It makes life interesting, doesn't it?

  11. #7
    Registered Users
    Posts
    51
    Sex
    Location
    USA
    Y-DNA (P)
    M222+ A10526+
    mtDNA (M)
    H1au

    United States of America Ireland Scotland
    Quote Originally Posted by Rory Cain View Post
    I read some of those too, re the Macdonald chiefs being R1a and their clansmen being R1b, and then oneillabu recruited Lord Macdonald of Islay into the R-DF21 project on the basis of his DF5 test result which makes him L21/DF13/DF21/Z246/DF25/DF5. Yep, not all Macdonald chiefs are DF21 as oneillabu and I have already discussed in another thread. Similarly most O'Neills of Tyrone are not M222+ Ui Niall type, but then being M222_ you would know that already. It makes life interesting, doesn't it?
    So you're saying the current Chief of the name is participating and has tested positive for DF85? I was unaware of that. I did some looking around and the Clan Donald DNA Project shows the results for four chiefs that are R1a: Iain Godfrey Macdonald of Sleat, Ranald MacDonell of Glengarry, Ranald Alexander MacDonald of Clanranald and Allan Douglas MacDonald of Vallay.

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to RGM For This Useful Post:

     westernisles (02-11-2016)

  13. #8
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,738
    Sex
    Location
    Dún Laoire, Bláth Cliath, Éire
    Ethnicity
    Gael
    Nationality
    Éireanach
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-DF41
    mtDNA (M)
    U4d3

    Ireland
    Where is the suggestion that Fiach Mac Aodha Ó Broin (anglised: Feagh McHugh O'Byrne -- died 1597) was DF21 coming from? From what we can see in public databases the O'Brynes of Leinster along with O'Tools and the Kavanaghs/Kinsella's/McMurrogh's appears to be Z255+ (L159.2+) -- "Irish sea"/Laigin cluster.

    -Paul
    (DF41+)

  14. #9
    Registered Users
    Posts
    232
    Sex
    Omitted

    Hi All,

    There has been a lot of speculation on L193 (513 A-1) in this regard. Seems to be very much Scotland, heavy in the south-west (Ayrshire/Galloway), but also found in Argyll, Perthshire, Inverness, Moray, and elsewhere. Also a lot in Ireland, mostly in the north, where it might be mostly due to Ulster plantation. But the clade is quite closely related to other sub-groups of 513 (e.g. A-3 and A-2), which are much more widespread throughout Ireland. Being quite young (1000-1500 YBP?) and very prolific in Scotland, there's a chance this could be a royal, or at least landed, line, possibly related to Dalriada, and/or the various British kingdoms (e.g. Rhegged or Strathclyde).

    Some have speculated on the line of the Lords of Galloway, which would fit in geographically, and also in terms of approximate time period. They were thought to be 'Gall Ghaidel', i.e. Norse-Gaels from Argyll and the north, where they would certainly have had ties with the Irish Celts.

    I'd love to hear any thoughts on L193 and/or L513 and how they might fit in here!

    Cheers to all,

    Jon

  15. #10
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,229
    Sex
    Location
    Glasgow, Scotland
    Ethnicity
    Pictland/Deira
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-M222-FGC5864
    mtDNA (M)
    H5r*

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon View Post
    Hi All,

    There has been a lot of speculation on L193 (513 A-1) in this regard. Seems to be very much Scotland, heavy in the south-west (Ayrshire/Galloway), but also found in Argyll, Perthshire, Inverness, Moray, and elsewhere. Also a lot in Ireland, mostly in the north, where it might be mostly due to Ulster plantation. But the clade is quite closely related to other sub-groups of 513 (e.g. A-3 and A-2), which are much more widespread throughout Ireland. Being quite young (1000-1500 YBP?) and very prolific in Scotland, there's a chance this could be a royal, or at least landed, line, possibly related to Dalriada, and/or the various British kingdoms (e.g. Rhegged or Strathclyde).

    Some have speculated on the line of the Lords of Galloway, which would fit in geographically, and also in terms of approximate time period. They were thought to be 'Gall Ghaidel', i.e. Norse-Gaels from Argyll and the north, where they would certainly have had ties with the Irish Celts.

    I'd love to hear any thoughts on L193 and/or L513 and how they might fit in here!

    Cheers to all,

    Jon
    Hmm I have to say that some of the L193 guys have been talking it up a bit more than it objectively deserves. I can't see any evidence from the discussions on their forum or from the data itself that it should be linked to major nobility or royalty.

    MacUalraig

Page 1 of 69 1231151 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 20
    Last Post: 01-08-2019, 06:31 PM
  2. Scottish Royalty SNP Connections
    By MaoL193 in forum R1b-L21
    Replies: 100
    Last Post: 05-15-2018, 07:57 PM
  3. Clan Montgomery
    By J Man in forum Genealogy
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 05-10-2015, 02:09 AM
  4. Wales and FTDNA's Y-DNA Database
    By rms2 in forum R1b-L21
    Replies: 89
    Last Post: 02-18-2014, 07:09 PM
  5. Ireland and DF13
    By rms2 in forum DF13
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 04-19-2013, 03:29 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •