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Thread: Migrations of K, L and T

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    Migrations of K, L and T

    Has anybody ever made a map on the migrations of various L and T clades as well as the K clade that is ancestral to L and T? is there a theory accepted by most scholars out there?

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    Quote Originally Posted by newtoboard View Post
    Has anybody ever made a map on the migrations of various L and T clades as well as the K clade that is ancestral to L and T? is there a theory accepted by most scholars out there?
    I do not have a migration map, but based on the data, I believe Syro-Mesopotamia and Y-DNA T may have a long history. The same goes for (certain subclades ? of) Y-DNA L and Syria/Levant.

    Y-DNA T in Syro-Mesopotamia, among minorities and Syrian Arabs(?). Sources are Mendez et al., and the Assyrian DNA project at FTDNA.



    This may tie-in with the above. Druze, Palestinian Christians, Alawites, and Maronites with the highest frequencies among Semitic-speaking populations.

    Code:
    PopID	N	L	Language		Source
    Druze__	751	6%	Semitic	Arabic	Behar et al., Flores et al., Al-Zahery et al., Shlush et al.
    PlChris	44	5%	Semitic	Arabic	Fernandes et al.
    Alawi	104	5%	Semitic	Arabic	Donbak et al.
    Assyr	79	1%	Semitic	Aramaic	FTDNA, 23andMe (Pred. “Nestorian”)
    IraqJ	79	0%	Semitic	Hebrew	Behar et al.
    IranJ	49	0%	Semitic	Hebrew	Behar et al.
    Armen	413	2%	Indo-European	Armenian	Hererra et al.
    NiqJ	99	1%	Semitic	Hebrew/Aramaic	Nebel et al.
    GrkOrt	59	0%	Semitic	Arabic	Haber et al.
    Maron	196	4%	Semitic	Arabic/Aramaic	Haber et al.
    YemeJ	74	0%	Semitic	Hebrew/Arabic	Behar et al.
    Bakht	46	0%	Indo-Iranian (IE)	Luri	Roewer et al.
    S_Tlsh	18	0%	Indo-Iranian (IE)	Talysh	Roewer et al.
    Gilak	43	0%	Indo-Iranian (IE)	Gilaki	Roewer et al.
    Mazan	46	4%	Indo-Iranian (IE)	Mazandarani	Roewer et al.
    N_Tlsh	43	14%	Indo-Iranian (IE)	Talysh	Roewer et al.
    Last edited by Humanist; 12-10-2013 at 09:39 PM.

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     palamede (12-11-2013)

  5. #3
    I think L1b has a long history in the Levant (that is what I believe most of the Levantine L belongs to). But I am not sure on that. For example DMXX has speculated that at least some of the Talysh L came from Central Asia. I don't see why the same can't apply to the Levant especially if we find L1a and L1c. L1b I don't know. But it does seem to have its peak among groups around the south Black and Caspian seas.

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    There seems to be a lot of claims of L originating in Iran or Mesopotamia but given the distribution of L clades South Central Asia seems more likely. L1c seems to be concentrated in South Central Asia. L1b in West Asia. L1a in South Asia. L2 in Europe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Humanist View Post
    I do not have a migration map, but based on the data, I believe Syro-Mesopotamia and Y-DNA T may have a long history. The same goes for (certain subclades ? of) Y-DNA L and Syria/Levant.
    What is Northern Iraqi Jews? Are there another group of Jews other than the Kurdish Jews?

    Quote Originally Posted by newtoboard View Post
    There seems to be a lot of claims of L originating in Iran or Mesopotamia but given the distribution of L clades South Central Asia seems more likely. L1c seems to be concentrated in South Central Asia. L1b in West Asia. L1a in South Asia. L2 in Europe.
    There are quite many Hemshin Armenians with old L2(L1b).. I also have 2 L2* matches from Anatolia and a Cypriot..

    http://www.familytreedna.com/public/...ction=yresults

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    Quote Originally Posted by MfA View Post
    What is Northern Iraqi Jews? Are there another group of Jews other than the Kurdish Jews?
    Jews of N Iraq = Kurdish Jews. Native speakers of Northeastern Neo-Aramaic. Like myself.
    Last edited by Humanist; 01-05-2014 at 10:05 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by newtoboard View Post
    There seems to be a lot of claims of L originating in Iran or Mesopotamia but given the distribution of L clades South Central Asia seems more likely. L1c seems to be concentrated in South Central Asia. L1b in West Asia. L1a in South Asia. L2 in Europe.
    Well, I am not one who is claiming L originated in Iran/Mesopotamia. I think it is a possibility. But, of course, so is farther east. We need a study devoted to the question of Y-DNA L's origin(s). Some aDNA would not hurt either.

  13. #8
    I know you never made a claim like that. I wasn't talking about you but the fact that this seems to be a common theory on Eupedia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by newtoboard View Post
    I know you never made a claim like that. I wasn't talking about you but the fact that this seems to be a common theory on Eupedia.
    The claim comes from the paper on J and T in Madagascar and east africa. They where "arab/persian" slavers with markings of T and J and first appeared as hunter/herders from the Zargos mountains ( they migrated south later). The L is due to the high balochi and gedrosian mixture plus their "union" with the Akkadian empire and their association in the northern levant.

    I agree that L began in south central Asia ( so did N ) , but moved westwards. IJKLT are the same family


    My Path = ( K-M9+, TL-P326+, T-M184+, L490+, M70+, PF5664+, L131+, L446+, CTS933+, CTS3767+, CTS8862+, Z19945+, BY143483 )


    Grandfather via paternal grandmother = I1-L22 ydna
    Great grandmother paternal side = T1a1e mtdna

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    Quote Originally Posted by Humanist View Post
    I do not have a migration map, but based on the data, I believe Syro-Mesopotamia and Y-DNA T may have a long history. The same goes for (certain subclades ? of) Y-DNA L and Syria/Levant.
    you need to update the T tree...........there is a new branch


    My Path = ( K-M9+, TL-P326+, T-M184+, L490+, M70+, PF5664+, L131+, L446+, CTS933+, CTS3767+, CTS8862+, Z19945+, BY143483 )


    Grandfather via paternal grandmother = I1-L22 ydna
    Great grandmother paternal side = T1a1e mtdna

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