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Thread: “Holding the peace” Common goals and themes in Anglo-Saxon peacemaking ...

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huijbregts View Post
    Have you seen your ancients result with the updated Global25?
    distance%=0.5782

    Finn

    HUN_Med_Szolad,52.8
    England_Saxon,26.2
    SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna,21
    Quote Originally Posted by Huijbregts View Post
    The Sigtuna admixture is what pulls your DNA to the North on mapping.
    The Szolad (and Viking?) results have a lot of individual "wiggle room" in them, because that's about as close as my dad and Finn have looked on one of these:

    "Custom:AGUser_Dewsloth_dad",
    "fit": 0.9016,
    "HUN_Med_Szolad": 59.17,
    "England_Saxon": 22.5,
    "SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna": 18.33,

    "closestDistances": [
    "HUN_Med_Szolad:SZ45: 2.327938",
    "HUN_Med_Szolad:SZ23: 2.862832",
    "HUN_Med_Szolad:SZ38: 3.167370",
    "HUN_Med_Szolad:SZ18: 3.465034",
     

    "HUN_Med_Szolad:SZ42: 3.583926",
    "HUN_Med_Szolad:SZ5: 3.600941",
    "HUN_Med_Szolad:SZ24: 3.760620",
    "HUN_Med_Szolad:SZ27: 3.815277",
    "HUN_Med_Szolad:SZ14: 3.839726",
    "HUN_Med_Szolad:SZ3: 3.868755",
    "England_Saxon:I0774: 4.001885",
    "England_Saxon:I0161: 4.149829",
    "HUN_Med_Szolad:SZ11: 4.213573",
    "HUN_Med_Szolad:SZ12: 4.276645",
    "SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_grt035: 4.282401",
    "HUN_Med_Szolad:SZ8: 4.375858",
    "England_Saxon:I0159: 4.633466",
    "England_Saxon:I0777: 4.657684",
    "HUN_Med_Szolad:SZ30: 4.828044",
    "HUN_Med_Szolad:SZ22: 4.841853",
    "SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_97002: 4.880513",
    "SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_stg021: 5.069013",
    "HUN_Med_Szolad:SZ7: 5.086019",
    "HUN_Med_Szolad:SZ13: 5.390790",
    "HUN_Med_Szolad:SZ4: 5.399295",
    "SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_grt036: 5.410500",
    "SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_nuf002: 5.462449",
    "HUN_Med_Szolad:SZ28: 5.499239",
    "HUN_Med_Szolad:SZ15: 5.517939",
    "HUN_Med_Szolad:SZ16: 5.556305",
    "England_Saxon:I0157: 5.586466",
    "England_Saxon:NO3423: 5.704156",
    "England_Saxon:I0769: 6.068919",
    "SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_84001: 6.280751",
    "HUN_Med_Szolad:SZ9: 6.348617",
    "England_Saxon:I0773: 6.516929",
    "HUN_Med_Szolad:SZ2: 6.591733",
    "SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_kls001: 6.601452",
    "HUN_Med_Szolad:SZ43: 6.634432",
    "HUN_Med_Szolad:SZ37: 6.682047",
    "SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_stg026: 6.935151",
    "HUN_Med_Szolad:SZ36: 7.105411",
    "SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_gtm021: 7.375278",
    "SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_urm160: 7.582883",
    "HUN_Med_Szolad:SZ32: 7.674853",
    "SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_84005: 7.969538",
    "SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_urm035: 8.202867",
    "HUN_Med_Szolad:SZ40: 9.270582",
    "SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_stg020: 10.824661",
    "SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_KAL006: 11.857238",
    "SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_kal009: 15.826109"
    R1b>M269>L23>L51>L11>P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833 >S4281>S4268>Z17112 (S17075-)

    Y-cousin: 6DRIF-23 (DF19>>Z17112+, S17075+)

    Ancestors: Francis Cooke (M223/I2a2a) b1583; Hester Mahieu (Cooke) (J1c2 mtDNA) b.1584; Richard Warren (E-M35) b1578; Elizabeth Walker (Warren) (H1j mtDNA) b1583;
    John Mead (I2a1/P37.2) b1634; Rev. Joseph Hull (I1, L1301+ L1302-) b1595; Benjamin Harrington (M223/I2a2a-Y5729) b1618; Joshua Griffith (L21>DF13) b1593;
    John Wing (U106) b1584; Hermann Wilhelm (DF19) b1635

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to Dewsloth For This Useful Post:

     Finn (05-16-2019)

  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dewsloth View Post
    The Szolad (and Viking?) results have a lot of individual "wiggle room" in them, because that's about as close as my dad and Finn have looked on one of these:

    "Custom:AGUser_Dewsloth_dad",
    "fit": 0.9016,
    "HUN_Med_Szolad": 59.17,
    "England_Saxon": 22.5,
    "SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna": 18.33,
    These Szolad and Collalbo samples are tricky.
    Your model suffers from two problems:
    1. Szolad is internally very heterogeneous, mainly because some Szolad samples are Southern.
    2. You left out your own Southern admixture, for instance as Iberia_CE.
    Your model should have been something like:

    distance%=0.6312
    DewslothDad

    HUN_Med_Szolad,55
    Iberia_CE,28.4
    England_Saxon,8.6
    SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna,8

    Your model supplemented the missing Southern admixture by selecting more Szolad Southern samples.
    In reality your sample is very different from Finn.

  4. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Huijbregts For This Useful Post:

     Dewsloth (05-15-2019),  Finn (05-16-2019),  Garimund (05-17-2019),  Jessie (05-22-2019),  JMcB (05-16-2019),  Ruderico (05-17-2019)

  5. #13
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    IMO the North Dutch population is basically a mixture of TRB and SGC, it was an outlier of the North German Plain, close to Southern Scandinavia. Of course there was some Anglo-Saxon influx too. But my I impression is that this stream can’t explain the similarity at his whole....

  6. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    IMO the North Dutch population is basically a mixture of TRB and SGC, it was an outlier of the North German Plain, close to Southern Scandinavia. Of course there was some Anglo-Saxon influx too. But my I impression is that this stream can’t explain the similarity at his whole....
    It is a little odd to state that 'North Dutch population is basically a mixture of TRB and SGC'. That mixture took place thousands of years ago, maybe even before the start of the Nordic Bronze Age.
    My model defines a mixture in the early Middle Ages, which is much more informative.

  7. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Huijbregts For This Useful Post:

     Jessie (05-22-2019),  JMcB (05-16-2019)

  8. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huijbregts View Post
    Have you seen your ancients result with the updated Global25?
    distance%=0.5782

    Finn

    HUN_Med_Szolad,52.8
    England_Saxon,26.2
    SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna,21
    Could you do mine with the updated Global25 Huijbregts?

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to Radboud For This Useful Post:

     JMcB (05-16-2019)

  10. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radboud View Post
    Could you do mine with the updated Global25 Huijbregts?
    Eurogenes is in the process of renovating the labels. So I too have some work to do. Have some patience for a few days please.

  11. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Huijbregts For This Useful Post:

     JMcB (05-16-2019),  Radboud (05-16-2019)

  12. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huijbregts View Post
    It is a little odd to state that 'North Dutch population is basically a mixture of TRB and SGC'. That mixture took place thousands of years ago, maybe even before the start of the Nordic Bronze Age.
    My model defines a mixture in the early Middle Ages, which is much more informative.
    Yes I assume that the basisc component as in case of the North Dutch and Southern Scandinavians are the same/ related: TRB (the Ertebřlle HG and ENF) and Single Grave (Steppe). So the basic layers of the genepools are the same.

    Of course there is drift and some different deveolpment caused by distance.

    The early middle age/migration time development simply can't cause the whole of similarity that doesnt't make sense.....
    Last edited by Finn; 05-16-2019 at 02:43 PM.

  13. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huijbregts View Post
    The Sigtuna admixture is what pulls your DNA to the North on mapping.
    In fact these are all NNW European admixtures (Anglo-Saxon and partly Szolad). Only mediaval migration to North Dutch? May be there are a few lines in my ancestry but this can't explain the whole auDNA....

  14. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    The early middle age/migration time development simply can't cause the whole of similarity that doesnt't make sense.....
    Only mediaval migration to North Dutch? May be there are a few lines in my ancestry but this can't explain the whole auDNA....
    can't cause...can't explain
    You have strong opinions about the ancestry of the North-Dutch.
    What are your genetical arguments?

  15. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huijbregts View Post
    can't cause...can't explain
    You have strong opinions about the ancestry of the North-Dutch.
    What are your genetical arguments?
    Always open for better opinions Huijbregts!

    This one from Davidski I think is very convincing. Here he shows the 'integration' of the Dutch BB (SGC based according to Davidski) with HG and ENF (=TRB substrate in North Dutch, NW Germany, South Scandinavia) in to the Anglo-Saxon and modern Norwegians and Swedes. That's exactly the corner you can pinpoint me.

    Last edited by Finn; 05-16-2019 at 08:28 PM.

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