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Thread: Phasing Question

  1. #1
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    Phasing Question

    I have had multiple family members tested including my wife, both my children, a full sister and a paternal half sister. I tried to get my mother tested twice, but 23andMe couldn't extract DNA from her saliva. So I had her brother tested.

    Through this testing we have learned that we carry small amounts of Native American DNA. We think it comes from a half-Native lady who died in Virginia before 1785. My uncle carries some of this Native DNA as does my full sister.

    When my results originally came back several years ago, they showed I was 100% European. But when I got my daughter tested, 23andMe told me they had recalculated my test results because she had both parents' DNA to compare to. They told her that she had gotten .1 % of her 14% total Native American ancestry from me. That was a shocker! It even showed that it was located on the extreme left end of chromosome 9. After looking at my uncle's ancestry composition, his results clearly showed the same area as Native American in origin. My test results were subsequently tweaked down to 99.9% European. But it still shows that tiny piece of chromosome 9 as European in origin.

    So here's my puzzled question:

    Since that specific area of chromosome 9 shows up on my daughter's test results as clearly Native American as well as being clearly from me, why doesn't 23andMe show it on my results as Native American as well as hers?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grossvater View Post
    I have had multiple family members tested including my wife, both my children, a full sister and a paternal half sister. I tried to get my mother tested twice, but 23andMe couldn't extract DNA from her saliva. So I had her brother tested.

    Through this testing we have learned that we carry small amounts of Native American DNA. We think it comes from a half-Native lady who died in Virginia before 1785. My uncle carries some of this Native DNA as does my full sister.

    When my results originally came back several years ago, they showed I was 100% European. But when I got my daughter tested, 23andMe told me they had recalculated my test results because she had both parents' DNA to compare to. They told her that she had gotten .1 % of her 14% total Native American ancestry from me. That was a shocker! It even showed that it was located on the extreme left end of chromosome 9. After looking at my uncle's ancestry composition, his results clearly showed the same area as Native American in origin. My test results were subsequently tweaked down to 99.9% European. But it still shows that tiny piece of chromosome 9 as European in origin.

    So here's my puzzled question:

    Since that specific area of chromosome 9 shows up on my daughter's test results as clearly Native American as well as being clearly from me, why doesn't 23andMe show it on my results as Native American as well as hers?
    Simple answer: because 23andme cannot reliably assign accurate ethnicity to segments as small as 0.1%, even when you are phased with your parents' results. E.g. my own results include 0.1% Siberian, 0.1% African, and 0.1% Native American. Neither my mum or dad have any Siberian or African, and the segments on which these appear in my results are labelled as "British & Irish" for both of them. As for the 0.1% NA, my dad also has the same amount (exactly 0.13%) on the same location (Chromosome 7). It only appears at 50% confidence level. At 60% to 90% Confidence levels, more than half of it disappears, leaving 0.058%. Although I do find one NA ancestor in my tree, he was born 1641 (11 generations ago) and the probability of inheriting any DNA from someone that far back is only 28% (i.e. a probability of 72% I didn't inherit anything from this ancestor). So I am not at all confident that this 0.058% is real in us either.

    To summarize, I do not trust 0.1% values. Not at all.

    Question: Does that 0.1% on your Chromosome 9 hang around at higher confidence levels?
    And, your ethnic mix includes Mexico I see. Was your NA ancestor full mexican?
    Mum = 50% Irish, 50% Ukrainian (Romanian=?)
    Dad = 40% French-Canadian, 10% Irish, 50% English
    Big Y + YTree.net = R M269 -> DF27 -> Z195 -> FGC34881 -> FGC34865 (SW France; ~500 ybp)
    FTDNA mtDNA Full Sequence = J1c2e
    Most Distant Known Ancestor = Jean Moreau b. 1630s Parthenay, Deux-Sèvres, France
    Surnames = Welch, Chibry, Moreau, Todd, Anderson, Bedford, Joncas, Basaraba

  3. #3
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    Thanks for responding to my question. On my daughter's results, the Native American chunk of DNA she supposedly got from me on chromosome 9 remains there up to a 70% confidence level. Then is just goes gray. The same chunk of Native American DNA on chromosome 9 on my uncle's results remains steady all the way to the most conservative setting. He also has a much larger chunk of Native American DNA on chromosome 6 that my sister shares. They both share this chunk with a 4th cousin whose most recent common ancestor with us was born in 1796 and is the grandson of the half-Native woman we think this DNA comes from. Some think she was Shawnee, others Chowanoke. Her family moved into western Virginia from the Chowan River country of North Carolina to get away from slave traders...at least, that's how the story has come to me.

    I included the Mexican flag because my wife has deep roots in Nuevo Leon, both among Native Americans and the Twelve Founding Families of Monterrey. So that makes me only Mexican by marriage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grossvater View Post

    Since that specific area of chromosome 9 shows up on my daughter's test results as clearly Native American as well as being clearly from me, why doesn't 23andMe show it on my results as Native American as well as hers?
    Its hard to provide an answer that will make you feel better. Phasing improves the results of the child based on the parent, but does not work the other way around. The NA your daughter receives could be noise, it could be a mis-attributed segment from your wife, OR it could in fact be the same NA component you see on your uncle. The best way to resolve would be to test your mother.

    I've experienced this a number of times where my results are consistently less European than my mother's and father's. When I had them tested on 23andMe, phasing only exaggerated the difference. I've tested on 6 services and 5 give me nonEuropean components wher as only the less reliable service or two ever assign my parents anything outside of Europe. Its certainly frustrating, but only time and technology will tell.
    Predominately English, Irish & German with Dutch, Swiss, French & Polish
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    GEDmatch Kits: A436029, M213836, Z169952 GEDCOM: 7950338

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