Page 60 of 62 FirstFirst ... 10505859606162 LastLast
Results 591 to 600 of 614

Thread: N1c in the Balts

  1. #591
    Registered Users
    Posts
    182
    Sex
    Nationality
    Canadian
    Y-DNA
    N-L1025

    Canada Germany Finland United Kingdom
    Quote Originally Posted by Generalissimo View Post
    Didn't the tarand grave tradition spread as far west as central Sweden at one point?
    Yes, along with Akozino-Malar celts and Morby ceramics.

    I'm not usually a fan of theories on molgen but Palafit's post is actually quality and connects this migration to the Viking N-L550 found in Nunnan, Sweden.
    http://forum.molgen.org/index.php/topic,11166.60.html

  2. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to MikkaK For This Useful Post:

     Generalissimo (05-14-2019),  parastais (05-15-2019)

  3. #592
    Registered Users
    Posts
    672
    Sex
    Omitted

    Quote Originally Posted by parastais View Post
    And my final Latvian model with only 3 reference populations, behold the fit!
    "sample": "Test1:Latvian",
    "fit": 1.0799,
    "Baltic_LVA_BA": 46.67,
    "HUN_Avar_Szolad": 31.67,
    "Baltic_EST_IA": 21.67

    Sorry for too much spam lately, Coldmountains taught me a new toy

    edit, tried same 3 pops for other Baltics. Solid fits, not as great as Latvian, but still <2.
    "sample": "Test1:Lithuanian",
    "fit": 1.6436,
    "HUN_Avar_Szolad": 55.83,
    "Baltic_LVA_BA": 44.17,
    "Baltic_EST_IA": 0,

    "sample": "Test1:Estonian",
    "fit": 1.7162,
    "Baltic_EST_IA": 54.17,
    "HUN_Avar_Szolad": 35.83,
    "Baltic_LVA_BA": 10,
    Basically when returning back on topic. We are back to basics - Lithuanians do not need Estonian_IA (Baltic Finns) to explain their genetics, but they are still 40% N.
    Latvians have over 20% Estonian_IA (~Baltic Finn) genetics which more or less fits population estimates pre-Crusades with Livonians estimated from 10-15% of population (can’t find the source now, just these numbers sticked in my head).

    Only good news is that L550 was in Tarands, so one way or another M2783 arrived with them.

  4. #593
    Registered Users
    Posts
    3,365
    Sex

    Does anyone know of any good maps of the maximum extent of the tarand grave tradition?

    But nothing produced by Carlos Quiles, thanks.

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to Generalissimo For This Useful Post:

     JoeyP37 (05-19-2019)

  6. #594
    Registered Users
    Posts
    672
    Sex
    Omitted

    Not exactly what you requested, but found this one and will put here for future reference:
    https://www.academia.edu/22302152/R....E_2005_105-120

    Edit: adding some more.

    Maybe those stone circle barrows that we have in North Lithuania (Western Lithuanian Group as per above, and Kerbed Barrow Culture as below) were already a mix of Baltic - Baltic Finns. And a source of N-M2783 in Balts?

    Roman Period Kerbed Barrow Culture (the Culture of Barrows with stone circles)
    Attachment 30468

    From https://www.academia.edu/28330637/A....s_2016_326-337
    Last edited by parastais; 05-16-2019 at 09:26 PM.

  7. #595
    Registered Users
    Posts
    229
    Sex
    Y-DNA
    N1c1 CTS 12908
    mtDNA
    H

    Finland
    Quote Originally Posted by Generalissimo View Post
    Does anyone know of any good maps of the maximum extent of the tarand grave tradition?

    But nothing produced by Carlos Quiles, thanks.
    There are some good maps in the new book of Valter Lang "Läänemeresoome tulemised" i.e. "Finnic be-comings", p. 169 early tarands, p. 175 typical and single tarands, but they are in book.

  8. #596
    Registered Users
    Posts
    672
    Sex
    Omitted

    @Shaikorth,
    Earlier you mentioned possibility that East Balts arrived from ~Dnieper already rich with N1c.
    Do you have any idea how they would look autosomally?

    My scenarios now are related to idea of stone encircled Barrows of Lithuania/Latvia being a hybrid of Baltic Finns/pre-Balts. Where for unknown to me reasons Siberian auyosomals (EST_IA related) would wash away but N-M2783 florish. And then East Balts would arrive from South East in several waves with ‘HUN_Avar_Szolad +Baltic_BA’ like genetics. Making Latvian mix at first and then next wave(s) would create Lithuanian mix.

  9. #597
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,727
    Y-DNA
    I-S336
    mtDNA
    K1c1

    Quote Originally Posted by parastais View Post
    @Shaikorth,
    Earlier you mentioned possibility that East Balts arrived from ~Dnieper already rich with N1c.
    Do you have any idea how they would look autosomally?

    My scenarios now are related to idea of stone encircled Barrows of Lithuania/Latvia being a hybrid of Baltic Finns/pre-Balts. Where for unknown to me reasons Siberian auyosomals (EST_IA related) would wash away but N-M2783 florish. And then East Balts would arrive from South East in several waves with ‘HUN_Avar_Szolad +Baltic_BA’ like genetics. Making Latvian mix at first and then next wave(s) would create Lithuanian mix.
    I was thinking that the Balt N1c could come from Dnieper when I figured out that idea. It's still possible since the N clades common in Balts existed by the time IA Estonians lived. This is what I get for Latvians and Lithuanians with Estonia_IA but the two early tarand immigrants taken out since I don't think Dnieper Balts had that much Sintashta outlier type ancestry.

    "distance%=0.8428"

    Latvian

    Baltic_LVA_BA,39.8
    HUN_Avar_Szolad,31.6
    Baltic_EST_IA,28.6

    "distance%=1.3801"

    Lithuanian

    HUN_Avar_Szolad,51
    Baltic_LVA_BA,42.6
    Baltic_EST_IA,6.4

  10. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Shaikorth For This Useful Post:

     MikkaK (05-19-2019),  palamede (05-19-2019),  parastais (05-19-2019)

  11. #598
    Registered Users
    Posts
    672
    Sex
    Omitted

    Hmm, both Lithuanian and Latvian fits have improved from my as per above. Although I feel it is more in line with my scenario, since LT having 0 Baltic Finness was a problem to it. If they got at least some, then we can speculate some more in territory of Lithuania before East Baltic arrival.

    ——
    I am interested re Hun_Avar_Szolad
    according to my own intuitive feel - Hun_Avar_Szolad type of genetics arrived into territory of modern Baltic States rather late. Late IA for example. In big numbers that is, in small numbers some Avar_Szolad type probably was there somewhere already in some form.
    It could arrive with either
    a) East Balts
    b) West Balts
    c) Slavs
    d) ??no idea, yet part of Szolad would eat some SWE_IA farmer??

    Wait a sec! I am from my phone - what if instead of EST_IA the more Germanic one EST_IA was used for LT?

  12. #599
    Registered Users
    Posts
    441
    Sex
    Location
    lombardy
    Nationality
    italian

    Italy Portugal Order of Christ Russia Imperial Canada Quebec Spanish Empire (1506-1701) Vatican
    Here is a fresh new comment.
    Not yet made up my mind on the subject BTW

    https://adnaera.com/2019/05/19/unrav...netic-history/
    Last edited by etrusco; 05-19-2019 at 08:57 AM.

  13. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to etrusco For This Useful Post:

     palamede (05-19-2019),  parastais (05-19-2019)

  14. #600
    Registered Users
    Posts
    672
    Sex
    Omitted

    This might hint something (Baltic_EST_IA_X04_1 is the most SWE_IA rich Estonian_IA, as we see both Latvians and Lithuanians have it around 10%, whereas only Latvians have average EST_IA). Latvians and Lithuanians also have same level of Baltic N-M2783.

    "sample": "Test1:Latvian",
    "fit": 1.0621,
    "Baltic_LVA_BA": 44.17,
    "HUN_Avar_Szolad": 30.83,
    "Baltic_EST_IA": 15.83,
    "Baltic_EST_IA_X04_1": 9.17,

    "sample": "Test2:Lithuanian",
    "fit": 1.6162,
    "HUN_Avar_Szolad": 50.83,
    "Baltic_LVA_BA": 38.33,
    "Baltic_EST_IA_X04_1": 10.83,
    "Baltic_EST_IA": 0,

Page 60 of 62 FirstFirst ... 10505859606162 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •