Page 68 of 75 FirstFirst ... 18586667686970 ... LastLast
Results 671 to 680 of 749

Thread: N1c in the Balts

  1. #671
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,205
    Sex
    Omitted
    Y-DNA (P)
    N - Z16980

    Quote Originally Posted by Huck Finn View Post
    Maybe you did, especially if North Lithuanian Barrows culture was influenced by East Germanic speakers. However, a fancy burial habit as such is probably not enough to explain the success of N-L1025 in Baltic states, I'd guess.

    That being said, there are other possibilties too, such as "South of Long Barrow Culture territory, in the upper reaches of the Dnieper and the Western Dvina/Daugava basin, the very similar Tushemlya-Bantserovshchina Culture appeared at the same time (Lopatin, Furas'ev 1995; Lopatin 2006; Shchukin et al.2006, pp.55-60)."

    https://www.academia.edu/1930524/M_K...2007_p_238_253
    Come on now
    Tarand graves is also a fancy burial habbit, but we are Ok to assume they brought new people

    This was a new habbit not just in burials but also in settlements that spread from West Lithuanian coast into all Southern Latvia (including intrusion to Vidzeme, and perhaps even up to Tartu Estonia) and all Northern Lithuania (including later intrusion in East Lithuanian Barrows Culture - the core for Lithuanians-to-be). If we are looking for successful Founder Effect, then this is it. Before this culture areas in South Latvia and North Lithuania were sparcely populated (excluding NE Lithuanian Brushed Pottery sites who got destroyed or assimilated by this group of people later).

    Tushemlja, Long Barrows, etc are episodes of Slavification of Russia. Of course, some N-L1025 picked up near Baltics might have participated. But like I said it was a secondary effect. And they DID NOT make any impact in Baltics itself. Not at a scale of Stone Circles. Besides the vector was from South to North.

  2. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to parastais For This Useful Post:

     Huck Finn (06-14-2021),  Michał (06-20-2021),  Ryukendo (06-15-2021),  Zelto (06-14-2021)

  3. #672
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,205
    Sex
    Omitted
    Y-DNA (P)
    N - Z16980

    Quote Originally Posted by Zelto View Post
    All of the Saaremaa samples are from the Salme ship burials. To my knowledge they all look Germanic/Norse. Some may have been slightly drifted towards Finnics, but I think that was typical of the Malaren region during the IA-Viking Age.
    I checked them
    15 - I1
    6 - N-L550 (different extinct lines)
    6 - R1a (at least 3-4 were CTS-1211)

    Quite interesting if there is a difference in autosomes between those 3 Y lineages in Salme burials Saaremaa

  4. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to parastais For This Useful Post:

     Michał (06-20-2021),  Ryukendo (06-15-2021),  Zelto (06-14-2021)

  5. #673
    Registered Users
    Posts
    261
    Sex
    Omitted
    Ethnicity
    1/2 Swedish 1/2 German
    Y-DNA (P)
    N1c
    mtDNA (M)
    U2

    Quote Originally Posted by parastais View Post
    I checked them
    15 - I1
    6 - N-L550 (different extinct lines)
    6 - R1a (at least 3-4 were CTS-1211)

    Quite interesting if there is a difference in autosomes between those 3 Y lineages in Salme burials Saaremaa
    Not really. Some of the most Finnic samples are N (VK504), however a lot of I1 samples have the same Finnic drift (VK554). One of the most "western" samples (VK505), is also N. All of the Saaremaa samples cluster within modern Scandinavian diversity.

    https://vahaduo.github.io/g25views/#NorthEurope

     
    VK2020_EST_Saaremaa_EVA:VK480,0.121791,0.125926,0. 078441,0.065246,0.04647,0.025937,0.001645,0.009923 ,0.006954,-0.00656,-0.001299,0.002398,-0.013379,0.004404,0.020629,0.00411,-0.012778,0.00038,0.006159,0.007379,0.005366,0.0008 66,-0.005053,0.005422,-0.008263 VK2020_EST_Saaremaa_EVA:VK481,0.125205,0.122879,0. 07467,0.07106,0.047086,0.022869,0.011751,0.011999, 0.009817,-0.012939,-0.001786,-0.003447,-0.001487,-0.003303,0.013436,0.004375,-0.007432,-0.000253,0.010056,0.003502,0.014474,0.013231,0.001 849,0.006145,-0.001317 VK2020_EST_Saaremaa_EVA:VK482,0.126344,0.12491,0.0 74293,0.066215,0.040315,0.024263,0.00329,0.007154, 0.005931,-0.006743,0.001299,-0.004796,-0.003122,-0.012111,0.017101,0.020021,0.00678,-0.004814,-0.001508,0.015632,0.000998,-0.007296,0.003697,0.013375,-0.001796 VK2020_EST_Saaremaa_EVA:VK483,0.126344,0.126941,0. 071276,0.060724,0.044316,0.019522,0.00564,0.010615 ,0.005727,-0.012028,-0.009256,0.00015,0.000595,-0.00812,0.027416,0.028374,0.010822,0.005828,0.0012 57,0.012506,0.006239,0.000124,0.00419,0.013375,0.0 06945 VK2020_EST_Saaremaa_EVA:VK484,0.125205,0.125926,0. 075047,0.065246,0.045239,0.025658,0.00188,0.013846 ,0.001023,-0.007836,-0.009419,0.004796,-0.004757,0.001376,0.017372,-0.001061,-0.020992,0.004054,-0.002263,0.001,0.009109,-0.000989,-0.004437,0.011929,0.008981 VK2020_EST_Saaremaa_EVA:VK485,0.134311,0.123895,0. 076555,0.064923,0.039084,0.027889,0.00094,0.017538 ,0.003272,-0.009112,-0.002598,-0.004346,0.001487,-0.006331,0.019544,0.016839,-0.00352,0.004307,0.010936,0.001501,0.007487,0.0029 68,0.005546,0.003856,-0.002275 VK2020_EST_Saaremaa_EVA:VK486,0.124067,0.127957,0. 081835,0.069445,0.044931,0.022869,0.008695,0.01384 6,0.011658,-0.006014,-0.007307,0.002398,-0.005946,0.001514,0.014794,0.006364,-0.005867,-0.001394,0.01257,0.009379,0.010357,0.003586,-0.000493,0.009278,0.005389 VK2020_EST_Saaremaa_EVA:VK487,0.130897,0.129988,0. 076555,0.058786,0.045239,0.021753,0.0094,0.011538, 0.008181,-0.00656,-0.000812,0.00015,-0.004311,0.008395,0.014522,-0.003713,-0.008866,0.00228,0.008422,0.001251,0.017095,-0.005812,0.001356,0.006748,0.002994 VK2020_EST_Saaremaa_EVA:VK488,0.127482,0.120848,0. 068259,0.059432,0.044624,0.0251,0.00799,0.012923,0 .01084,-0.005832,0.001786,0.003897,-0.002527,-0.01101,0.017644,0.007558,-0.011474,0.003421,0.001383,0.001126,0.005615,0.008 408,0.002711,0.01458,0.003952 VK2020_EST_Saaremaa_EVA:VK489,0.127482,0.13405,0.0 72784,0.060401,0.05201,0.020917,0.00846,0.008307,0 .011658,-0.00893,-0.00406,0.005845,-0.007136,-0.002615,0.025244,0.003845,-0.003781,0.009248,-0.002514,0.007379,0.000499,0.005193,0.006532,0.015 665,0.006466 VK2020_EST_Saaremaa_EVA:VK490,0.134311,0.126941,0. 075801,0.066215,0.044316,0.024542,0.007285,0.00346 1,0.002863,-0.005832,-0.001461,0.002548,0.003568,-0.009358,0.016965,0.025988,0.008866,-0.000507,0.000503,0.001126,0.001872,0.000618,-0.00037,0.010845,0.002275 VK2020_EST_Saaremaa_EVA:VK491,0.121791,0.121864,0. 074293,0.068153,0.041854,0.034025,0.010575,0.01061 5,0.002659,-0.015672,-0.004222,0.006894,0.003568,-0.00055,0.020629,0.01127,-0.008605,0.002027,0.001131,0.007504,0.012228,-0.005317,0.000739,0.005181,0.001916 VK2020_EST_Saaremaa_EVA:VK492,0.136588,0.118817,0. 058077,0.055556,0.040931,0.020917,0.011281,0.01153 8,0.00225,-0.005285,0.003735,-0.000899,-0.000892,-0.005092,0.021172,0.02612,0.010431,-0.001014,0.005028,0.009004,0.005989,0.004575,-0.003451,0.008314,0.00012 VK2020_EST_Saaremaa_EVA:VK493,0.129758,0.135065,0. 075424,0.070414,0.050471,0.022032,0.001645,0.01476 9,0.002454,-0.014761,-0.002111,0.001948,0.002527,-0.001376,0.012215,0.01896,0.016428,0.00152,0.00615 9,0.008379,0.002121,-0.002844,-0.006779,0.008676,0.00491 VK2020_EST_Saaremaa_EVA:VK495,0.134311,0.131003,0. 079572,0.069122,0.046778,0.029841,0.003995,0.00807 7,-0.006136,-0.017677,-0.002436,-0.001948,-0.002825,0.008257,0.016965,-0.010209,-0.019166,-0.006081,0.001006,-0.002251,0.006239,0.011005,-0.00037,0.020123,-0.000359 VK2020_EST_Saaremaa_EVA:VK496,0.122929,0.125926,0. 076933,0.062339,0.041854,0.026495,0.001175,0.01338 4,0.002659,-0.006196,-0.004222,0.004046,-0.004906,0.002477,0.016015,0.011933,-0.004172,0.00114,0.004399,0.005878,0.004866,0.0043 28,-0.001356,0.011568,0.004431 VK2020_EST_Saaremaa_EVA:VK497,0.125205,0.121864,0. 076555,0.060078,0.04647,0.024542,0.006345,0.011307 ,0.0045,-0.008018,-0.006658,3e-04,0.003271,-0.011285,0.016422,0.020684,0.008866,0.003547,0.006 662,0.011881,0.00574,-0.000495,-0.00419,0.009158,0.00491 VK2020_EST_Saaremaa_EVA:VK498,0.127482,0.125926,0. 075801,0.067507,0.044931,0.027052,0.0047,0.006461, 0,-0.014943,-0.000974,0.001499,-0.002379,0.004266,0.011672,-0.005436,-0.022817,0.002027,0.004902,0.001376,0.002745,0.006 801,0.002835,0.015906,0.001676 VK2020_EST_Saaremaa_EVA:VK504,0.129758,0.126941,0. 081081,0.07106,0.048009,0.0251,0.012221,0.016615,0 .003681,-0.014579,-0.004384,3e-04,0.003568,0.00234,0.007736,0.001724,-0.015125,0.000507,0.00993,0.001,0.005116,-0.000742,0.001972,0.000361,0.006586 VK2020_EST_Saaremaa_EVA:VK505,0.124067,0.131003,0. 067127,0.054587,0.040931,0.016455,0.004935,0.006,0 .011249,-0.008201,0,0.001649,-0.001041,0.004404,0.021308,-0.008884,-0.019166,-0.000253,0.00088,0.001501,0.007736,0.008532,-0.00037,0.013014,0.001437 VK2020_EST_Saaremaa_EVA:VK506,0.125205,0.120848,0. 079572,0.066215,0.048624,0.026495,0.00047,0.011307 ,-0.000409,-0.011116,-0.010068,0.001948,-0.001189,-0.010184,0.021851,0.012066,-0.013951,0.002027,0.005531,0.013381,0.007612,-0.003586,0.009613,0.013616,0.003353 VK2020_EST_Saaremaa_EVA:VK507,0.133173,0.132019,0. 070522,0.063631,0.048932,0.022311,0.00799,0.008307 ,0.00225,-0.013485,0.002111,-0.008243,-0.006541,-0.00055,0.018458,0.000265,-0.016168,0.003801,0.007793,0.008504,0.010232,-0.003091,0.002465,0.013134,-0.001078 VK2020_EST_Saaremaa_EVA:VK508,0.135449,0.125926,0. 07731,0.064923,0.041238,0.017012,0.007285,0.006,-0.003068,-0.016037,-0.004709,0.001349,-0.002825,0.004954,0.011672,0.005967,-0.001565,0.004307,-0.001383,0.006003,0.004118,0.002597,0.006162,0.011 206,0.001437 VK2020_EST_Saaremaa_EVA:VK509,0.127482,0.132019,0. 073916,0.053295,0.044624,0.015897,0.00799,0.007846 ,0.007363,-0.003827,-0.006983,0.001649,-0.000595,-0.003853,0.008686,0.006762,0.001043,-0.002534,0.003268,0.010005,0.004617,0.005564,0.002 711,0.005904,-0.005269 VK2020_EST_Saaremaa_EVA:VK510,0.127482,0.126941,0. 073161,0.070414,0.052625,0.032909,0.00564,0.010846 ,0.006954,-0.006014,-0.00747,-0.002847,0.002527,-0.000826,0.020901,-0.002254,-0.014081,-0.00114,0.002514,0.009004,0.018467,0.007172,-0.001602,0.017231,0.002036 VK2020_EST_Saaremaa_EVA:VK511,0.12862,0.125926,0.0 69767,0.065892,0.036314,0.017849,0.009635,0.010615 ,-0.003681,-0.010023,-0.008444,0.000749,0.001338,0.004954,0.021715,-0.004641,-0.021905,-0.003674,-0.000628,0.000875,0.009858,-0.002349,0.000863,0.004338,-0.000359 VK2020_EST_Saaremaa_EVA:VK512,0.126344,0.125926,0. 068636,0.066538,0.046162,0.022311,0.004465,0.01061 5,0.006954,-0.013485,-0.003897,0,0.002973,0.000963,0.016694,0.0118,-0.002347,0.003421,-0.008045,0.005503,0.012104,0.001978,-0.00037,0.010363,-0.00467 VK2020_EST_Saaremaa_EVA:VK549,0.127482,0.138112,0. 067127,0.069768,0.049855,0.018965,0.005405,0.01038 4,0.002659,-0.004009,-0.00682,3e-04,-0.008176,-0.002615,0.018322,0.00716,-0.00691,-0.0019,0.007165,0.009505,0.006489,-0.002968,0.003081,0.022413,0.003952 VK2020_EST_Saaremaa_EVA:VK550,0.138864,0.128972,0. 078441,0.06137,0.040623,0.020917,0.008695,0.012461 ,0.001636,-0.006378,-0.001137,0.002098,-0.012339,-0.003578,0.018187,-0.004375,-0.020731,-0.001394,0.01257,-0.001126,0.007487,0.002473,0.000863,0.002771,0.000 718 VK2020_EST_Saaremaa_EVA:VK551,0.125205,0.127957,0. 081081,0.069768,0.047086,0.0251,0.005405,0.011999, 0.005113,-0.008383,-0.005846,-0.002248,-0.006244,-0.006606,0.018187,-0.004508,-0.017732,0.002787,0.008673,0.003377,0.010232,0.002 72,-0.003081,0.015785,-0.003233 VK2020_EST_Saaremaa_EVA:VK552,0.126344,0.133034,0. 074293,0.066215,0.038776,0.028726,-0.000235,0.002308,0.005318,-0.006014,-0.004872,0.004196,-0.008474,-0.006606,0.021444,0.005967,-0.005085,0.007728,0.005908,0.01013,0.017469,0.0046 99,-0.008997,0.018918,-0.000479 VK2020_EST_Saaremaa_EVA:VK553,0.127482,0.131003,0. 073161,0.066861,0.043393,0.027331,0.018096,0.01176 9,0.006545,-0.010752,-0.004709,0.001798,-0.008622,-0.007294,0.020629,0.004641,-0.011474,0.006208,0.001131,0.003502,0.011605,0.005 193,0.005176,0.010122,-0.001317 VK2020_EST_Saaremaa_EVA:VK554,0.137726,0.109677,0. 07731,0.066861,0.050471,0.025937,0.00423,0.007615,-0.004704,-0.007289,-0.008119,-0.00045,0.000297,-0.011973,0.015065,0.016971,0.007041,-0.006968,0.005154,0.004002,0.014225,-0.001113,-0.004067,0.014339,0.00012 VK2020_EST_Saaremaa_EVA:VK555,0.126344,0.127957,0. 07995,0.062016,0.047393,0.019243,0.00705,0.012923, 0.003681,-0.012392,-0.004222,0.001499,0.001338,0.001514,0.018729,0.005 436,-0.02034,0.001647,-0.003771,0.004877,0.00861,0.006306,0.006162,0.0122 91,0.006107


    All of the sample IDs, with their Y-calls are listed here.

    BTW, what makes you say that these N-L550 lines are extinct? The ones that made it to Yfull have matches with modern samples, e.g. https://www.yfull.com/tree/N-Y30126*/

  6. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Zelto For This Useful Post:

     Michał (06-20-2021),  Ryukendo (06-15-2021)

  7. #674
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,205
    Sex
    Omitted
    Y-DNA (P)
    N - Z16980

    3/4 of 6 were not having any moderns nearby. One had another Viking age on that branch but not modern.

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to parastais For This Useful Post:

     JoeyP37 (06-14-2021)

  9. #675
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,205
    Sex
    Omitted
    Y-DNA (P)
    N - Z16980

    This is extremely interesting. So, R1a CTS1211 also were Scandinavian like?
    I imagine those N and R1a arrived together with Baltic Finns long BCE and then I1 “Germanised” them. Maybe Malaren was R1a and N affair just like Estonians or Finns and then at some point I1 arrived and made them Norse.
    Otherwise hard to explain those Scandinavian R1a (one of them has a modern descendant from Ventspils (North Courland, Latvia)).

  10. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to parastais For This Useful Post:

     Michał (06-20-2021),  Ryukendo (06-15-2021)

  11. #676
    Registered Users
    Posts
    261
    Sex
    Omitted
    Ethnicity
    1/2 Swedish 1/2 German
    Y-DNA (P)
    N1c
    mtDNA (M)
    U2

    Quote Originally Posted by parastais View Post
    For L-1025 to arrive with Goths or Scandinavians it would need to come from spot with 80-100% of N (if we exclude chance), maybe Malaren (and/or nearby islands) early centuries BCE was such a spot. But Goths definately were not such people, we know from Kowalewko, of many samples there was just one (and Baltic admixed) N late and deep in Poland.
    Any Scandinavian influence on the Baltic material culture during the migration period, seems to be referred to colloquially as Gothic. I'm not sure if there is any actually evidence they were Goths though. I agree that the Malaren valley and nearby islands could have been rich in N-L550 during the IA.

    The 535-536 AD climatic event apparently had a profound impact on the Baltic, especially farmers in Central Sweden. I posted a link here earlier, to a study showing settlement continuity before and after this event in the Malaren valley. I think this may have led to the reduction of N-L550 in central Sweden, as farmers from Southern Scandinavia filled in the vacuum created after 536 AD.
    Last edited by Zelto; 06-14-2021 at 07:08 PM.

  12. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Zelto For This Useful Post:

     Huck Finn (06-15-2021),  JoeyP37 (06-14-2021),  Michał (06-20-2021),  parastais (06-14-2021),  Ryukendo (06-15-2021)

  13. #677
    Registered Users
    Posts
    261
    Sex
    Omitted
    Ethnicity
    1/2 Swedish 1/2 German
    Y-DNA (P)
    N1c
    mtDNA (M)
    U2

    Quote Originally Posted by parastais View Post
    This is extremely interesting. So, R1a CTS1211 also were Scandinavian like?
    I imagine those N and R1a arrived together with Baltic Finns long BCE and then I1 “Germanised” them. Maybe Malaren was R1a and N affair just like Estonians or Finns and then at some point I1 arrived and made them Norse.
    Otherwise hard to explain those Scandinavian R1a (one of them has a modern descendant from Ventspils (North Courland, Latvia)).
    Some may have but its impossible to say. R1a-CTS1211 and R1a-Z92 had been in the Baltic region since the Bronze Age, there's no telling when they could have arrived in Sweden. Also, some of the R1a in Saaremaa is "Scandinavian" R1a-Z284, like VK551.

    Edit:
    I just checked on YFull, 3/6 R1a samples are downstream from R1a-Z280. Two of them are closely related. https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-FT104609/
    Last edited by Zelto; 06-14-2021 at 07:18 PM.

  14. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Zelto For This Useful Post:

     Coldmountains (06-14-2021),  Michał (06-20-2021),  parastais (06-14-2021),  Ryukendo (06-15-2021)

  15. #678
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,205
    Sex
    Omitted
    Y-DNA (P)
    N - Z16980

    Quote Originally Posted by Zelto View Post
    Some may have but its impossible to say. R1a-CTS1211 and R1a-Z92 had been in the Baltic region since the Bronze Age, there's no telling when they could have arrived in Sweden. Also, some of the R1a in Saaremaa is "Scandinavian" R1a-Z284, like VK551.

    Edit:
    I just checked on YFull, 3/6 R1a samples are downstream from R1a-Z280. Two of them are closely related. https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-FT104609/
    Maybe 2/8 CTS1211 (25%) and 6/8 L550 (75%) was somewhat possible for Early Baltic Finn spread that brought them into Malaren.

  16. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to parastais For This Useful Post:

     Ryukendo (06-15-2021),  Zelto (06-15-2021)

  17. #679
    Registered Users
    Posts
    261
    Sex
    Omitted
    Ethnicity
    1/2 Swedish 1/2 German
    Y-DNA (P)
    N1c
    mtDNA (M)
    U2

    Quote Originally Posted by parastais View Post
    Maybe 2/8 CTS1211 (25%) and 6/8 L550 (75%) was somewhat possible for Early Baltic Finn spread that brought them into Malaren.
    Possible, but I wouldn't bet on anything yet without aDNA from Tarands in Sweden. Some areas may have had different frequencies of N1c and R1a, especially as time went on they could have become bottlenecked, or simply didn't absorb the same groups. After all, the two Ingrian Tarand samples were both R1a.

    That actually hits on another problem with any kind of migration directly from Estonia to Latvia/Lithuania. We know that Estonia had roughly even percentages of R1a/N1c since the EIA, and that holds true for even the Medieval samples.

    The founder effect which occurred in Latvia/Lithuania, looks like a solely N-L1025 affair. As far as I'm aware, no single subclade of R1a (with a TMRCA of ~2500ybp) reaches the same frequency in Balts N-L1025 does. Latvians and Lithuanians instead, belong to a variety of R1a-Z280 (TMRCA 4700ybp) subclades, also common among East Slavs. Even R1a-Z92 and R1a-CTS1211 are much older, with aDNA corroborating a Bronze Age distribution and not an Iron Age founder effect.

  18. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Zelto For This Useful Post:

     Michał (06-20-2021),  parastais (06-15-2021),  Ryukendo (06-15-2021)

  19. #680
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,623
    Sex

    Why couldnt the early Finns have settled heavily in C Sweden before settling in Estonia and the Baltics? Could something like that work?

    Quote Originally Posted by parastais View Post
    Do you remember what was the proportion of N is those burials? And where they autosomally different from other samples (R1b, I1) there?

    For L-1025 to arrive with Goths or Scandinavians it would need to come from spot with 80-100% of N (if we exclude chance), maybe Malaren (and/or nearby islands) early centuries BCE was such a spot. But Goths definately were not such people, we know from Kowalewko, of many samples there was just one (and Baltic admixed) N late and deep in Poland.
    Which sample is this and how much Baltic shift does it show?

    Also, aren't all Gothic samples a little bit Eastern-shifted compared to the rest of the Germanics? Is there any evidence of low-level Finnic admix in Saarema and Goths from Kowalewko and from elsewhere compared to other Germanic people?
    Quoted from this Forum:

    "Which superman haplogroup is the toughest - R1a or R1b? And which SNP mutation spoke Indo-European first? There's only one way for us to find out ... fight!"

    " A Basal Eurasian and an Aurignacian walk into a bar... "

    " No, you are in the wrong... I really hope that you are not jumping on my thread with intent to harass me, just like other "receiving comitee", that unites in classic bullying unity, which makes me sad about such people, deprived of love etc.... "

Page 68 of 75 FirstFirst ... 18586667686970 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. N1c in Balts came with Finnic admixture?
    By Tomenable in forum Ancient (aDNA)
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: 01-17-2019, 02:34 PM
  2. Replies: 35
    Last Post: 08-21-2015, 12:41 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •