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Thread: A Rare Deep-Rooting D0 African Y-Chromosomal Haplogroup and Its Implications

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ybmpark View Post
    It will be funny if the few Chinese DE's turn out to be E0.
    I was just thinking that.

    But I'm not sure those Tibetan DE* are real. There were only a few, tested for only 1 SNP, and not found again in larger studies afterward, so could just be a false negative. (Unless someone knows of more recent finds I don't?)

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    (cross-post from discussion thread) From the paper: Haplogroup CT split keeps getting pushed back...now estimated at 101kya.

    CT's split probably represents the latest that Basal Eurasian could have split from Basal African lineages, no?


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    Finally we can resolve those West African "DE*" lineages, which turn out to diverge fairly close to the DE root, albeit on the branch leading to D. So DE is now split between E, which is mainly African, and D/D0, which is African/Asian.

    The recent TMRCA of the different West African D0 lineages is not surprising. Even the most important West African Y-DNA lineage, E-M2, has a ~14 kya YFull TMRCA. Other West-Central African lineages like E2b and E1a2 are not that much older. What is clear is that West-Central Africans descend from some population(s) carrying divergent Y-DNA DE lineages. I would agree with the authors of this paper that the overall weight of the evidence indicates the original Y-DNA DE male lived somewhere in Africa, but we can't exclude the possibility that they may have ancestors who lived in the Middle East sometime in the 50-125 kya time interval.

    Quote Originally Posted by Megalophias View Post
    I was just thinking that.

    But I'm not sure those Tibetan DE* are real. There were only a few, tested for only 1 SNP, and not found again in larger studies afterward, so could just be a false negative. (Unless someone knows of more recent finds I don't?)
    The authors also raise this possibility:

    Thus the combination of Y phylogenetic structure and dating of the out-of-Africa migration based on the 45,000-year-old Siberian fossil (Fu et al. 2014) favors the third scenario (Figure 2D) involving the migration out of C, D and FT between 50,300 years ago (lower bound of the FT diversification, Table S2) and 59,400 years ago (upper bound of the introgression; see Figure 3) which is in accordance with suggested models incorporating an African origin of the DE lineages (Underhill et al. 2001; Underhill and Roseman 2001). According to this interpretation, the reported Tibetan DE* chromosomes (Shi et al. 2008) would most likely represent back-mutations or genotyping errors at the one SNP used to define haplogroup D, but require further investigation.
    It's a shame they did not sequence the "DE*" Tibetans. I'll see if YFull are able to add these D0 sequence to the YTree, it will be interesting to compare with the Syrian DE* when he is hopefully sequenced.

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    Quote Originally Posted by K33 View Post
    (cross-post from discussion thread) From the paper: Haplogroup CT split keeps getting pushed back...now estimated at 101kya.

    CT's split probably represents the latest that Basal Eurasian could have split from Basal African lineages, no?
    That's not really a new result. See Karmin et al. 2015 (Figure 1)
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/?te...t=imagesdocsum

    B and CT split at ~100kya
    CF and DE split at ~73kya
    C and F about 72kya
    D and E about 69kya
    Well within the intervals of the new study.

    If Basal Eurasian exists, it hasn't left any super-basal lineages in it's descendant populations.
    More likely to be chocked up as E or maybe G.
    Last edited by Kale; 06-16-2019 at 12:37 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kale View Post
    If Basal Eurasian exists, it hasn't left any super-basal lineages in it's descendant populations.
    More likely to be chocked up as E or maybe G.
    I might have asked you this before, and sorry if I'm making you repeat yourself, but what's your take on Basal Eurasian as a whole? I know you're skeptical it's a real population, but I'm curious if you've fleshed out an alternative explanantion exactly.

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    Apparently the DE* kit from Syria (130501) has been upgraded from DE-M145* to D-FT75. He tested positive for SNPs FT75 and F974.
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    Quote Originally Posted by alchemist223 View Post
    Apparently the DE* kit from Syria (130501) has been upgraded from DE-M145* to D-FT75. He tested positive for SNPs FT75 and F974.
    YFull has listed F974 as a marker of haplogroup D, but it appears to be a somewhat unreliable SNP.

    According to ISOGG, FT75 has been observed in D2, but, again, I am unsure of this SNP's reliability.

    EDIT: Apparently, the ISOGG 2019 spreadsheet for Haplogroup D has already been updated to reflect the results of the recently published paper about Nigerian D. Former D2, which has been observed in the Philippines, is now D1b, and former D1b, which has been observed mainly in Japan (and, marginally, also in Korea, Micronesia, China, and Timor), is now D1a2. Thus, all current indications point to a presence of D2-FT75 (aka D0-FT75) in Nigeria, Saudi Arabia, and Syria.
    Last edited by Ebizur; 06-21-2019 at 08:25 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alchemist223 View Post
    Apparently the DE* kit from Syria (130501) has been upgraded from DE-M145* to D-FT75. He tested positive for SNPs FT75 and F974.
    How does he relate to the overall D phylogeny? I see F974 is currently a defining SNP for D on yfull but not FT75.

    EDIT: Reading the D0 paper again, and these Nigerian samples share 7 SNPs with regular D, whereas this Syrian only has 2 tentatively. So this would make the Syrian an even more diverged sample than D0 right? The plot thickens...
    Last edited by TuaMan; 06-21-2019 at 03:12 PM.

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    The SNPs shared between D0 and D1'2 are CTS11804, CTS9692, CTS8111, CTS3946, CTS4030, CTS4031, and CTS7583. F974 is not included, don't know if negative or no call. I guess we'll need to wait for complete results before we know if they're even related.

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    The Syrian guy's D lineage got some new members in ftdna - 2 Saudis assigned FT76 which is downstream to FT75 - https://www.familytreedna.com/public/y-dna-haplotree/D .
    Last edited by thejkhan; 06-21-2019 at 07:06 PM.

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