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Thread: Ancient Gauls

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Camulogène Rix View Post
    Coming soon...
    https://anr.fr/Project-ANR-15-CE27-0001

    Probably between the IA Britons and the IA Empuries.
    always need more results from France... especially aDNA!
    Y-DNA: 4th GGF Adam Weaver born 1785 in Pennsylvania (most likely German) - Sergeant, US 17th Inf, War of 1812: R1b-U106-Z381-Z156-Z305/306/307-Z304-DF98-S1911-S1894/S1900-S4004/FGC14818/FGC14823-FGC14816/FGC14817 shared with 6drif-3!

    mtDNA: 3rd GGM Bridget Dana b. 1843 Ireland - T2b2b - Pagan Migrant Icelander SSG-A3 (grave 4?) - Sílastaðir in Eyjafjarðarsýsla, North Iceland is T2b2b. Relative of King Bela III of Hungary (his Y-DNA and autosomal kinsman buried near him had mtDNA T2b2b1)!

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  3. #22
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    One of the Empuries samples was DF27 and the other was U152. The Empuries samples were interesting because Reich surmised they were prisoners of war as they were not cremated and cremation was being practiced by the Iberian/Greeks at that location. I will post my notes and Reich’s supplement tomorrow.

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  5. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonikW View Post
    The point is I suppose that if we only sample Belgae, some people would still doubt that these were the "Celts". The Romans mention the Belgic pride in having some descent from the warlike Germans. So again, it's best first to look at the people who called themselves Celts and then look at how all the Gauls relate to each other genetically.
    Looking at modern Flemish Belgians, they appear slightly different in appearance than the Dutch. As if the Flemish are mostly Dutch (Germanic) with some French (Latin) admixture.

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  7. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonikW View Post
    Some good news! Do you know anything about them beyond what was on the link, or what samples they might have?
    I see they say this project is to "help to better understand the integration process of migrants". I think that's helpful given some of the misunderstanding around ethnicity and DNA and hopefully will encourage more testing.
    It is said that the study is based on one hundred samples , of which a dozen from Bronze age.
    We will probably have a bunch of Gauls from East France too.
    Eurogenes G25 (ancient): 38% Corded_Ware_Baltic_Early+38% Scotland_N+24% Anatolia_EBA

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  9. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenHind View Post
    Some years ago there was an attempt, which ultimately resulted in failure, to identify the DNA of the Norman ducal line. French DNA laws apparently didn't prevent the attempt, so perhaps they don't apply to the testing of ancient samples for scientific purposes.

    Personally I would be more interested in Ydna than autosomnal, but obviously the more results, including mtDNA, the more helpful it would be.
    I think French laws on DNA are specifically to do with using it to establish paternity ?

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  11. #26
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    "L'énigme de la tombe celte" produced by Arte, a French-German Tv channel. I didn't find it with english subtitles:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pu6nuSpQJGo

    It's about the Late Hallstatt sites of Lavau (Champagne-Ardennes) e Vix (Bourgogne), along the Seine river. I previously said they probably were in the Belgica area. Sorry, they probably were further south.

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  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hando View Post
    Looking at modern Flemish Belgians, they appear slightly different in appearance than the Dutch. As if the Flemish are mostly Dutch (Germanic) with some French (Latin) admixture.
    It's surprising (or not?) that some people are persisting with such confusing reasonings. "Germanic" and "Latin" (properly speaking "Italic") are purely linguistic concepts and make no sense outside of a linguistic context. To tell it shortly: there is no "Germanic" or "Latin" admixture at all. About the Germanic languages in that European region, a useful reading could be Schrijver's book "Language Contact and the Origins of the Germanic Languages" ( https://www.amazon.com.au/Language-G...gateway&sr=8-1). You'll learn in particular serious things about the birth of the Dutch language, at the contact zone between Latin/Old French and Germanic/Pre-Dutch.
    En North alom, de North venom
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  15. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdean View Post
    I think French laws on DNA are specifically to do with using it to establish paternity ?
    The French laws on DNA are so confusing and inconsistent that their reading gives the impression that your neurons commit suicide one by one. The important thing: they are never applied (French speciality? French laws are often only ink on paper, fortunately).
    En North alom, de North venom
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  17. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by spruithean View Post
    I've wondered if France's restrictions would cause something like this to happen. I'm not aware of any Gaulish aDNA or Norman aDNA. Hopefully we can eventually get some data on that.
    There a multiple well documented merovingians cemeteries throughout Northern France. These are the samples I would like to see analyzed. The elusive trace of Gallo-Roman and Gauls is yet to be found in modern French people, but the Germanic trace is very present.
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    K16: German 50%, French North West 19%, French North East 11%, Irish/English 11%, French South 9%

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  19. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by anglesqueville View Post
    It's surprising (or not?) that some people are persisting with such confusing reasonings. "Germanic" and "Latin" (properly speaking "Italic") are purely linguistic concepts and make no sense outside of a linguistic context. To tell it shortly: there is no "Germanic" or "Latin" admixture at all. About the Germanic languages in that European region, a useful reading could be Schrijver's book "Language Contact and the Origins of the Germanic Languages" ( https://www.amazon.com.au/Language-G...gateway&sr=8-1). You'll learn in particular serious things about the birth of the Dutch language, at the contact zone between Latin/Old French and Germanic/Pre-Dutch.
    I wasn’t aware that Ive kept persisting with such confusing reasonings. I merely noted my subjective observation of how Belgian Flemings seem somewhat different in physical appearance than their northern Dutch neighbours. That is simply my personal point of view.

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