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Thread: "We are the inheritors of a rural civilisation": Indus Valley Civilisation

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    "We are the inheritors of a rural civilisation": Indus Valley Civilisation

    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full...-VGtM.facebook

    Abstract:

    What role do villages play in ‘an urban civilisation’? Although it is likely that most of the populations of South Asia’s ancient Indus Civilisation would not have lived in cities, it is not clear what their rural way of life would have encompassed. Using ceramic assemblages excavated from Indus-period villages in northwest India, alongside ethnographic records on village organization and rural craft production, this paper argues that Indus villages were characterized by rural complexity. This comprised a range of activities, including craft production, as well as short- and long-distance socio-economic links. Drawing on historical narratives, we show how South Asian villages have been essentialized and presented as either ideal or conservative extremes. We argue for the importance of a better understanding of the breadth and nuances of the rural sphere, and for a greater research focus on village life in the Indus context.

    I found this interesting new paper on the Indus Valley Civilisation via the University of Cambridge. It was published by one of their academics earlier this week. It appears to confirm what Tony Joseph said in his book about rural life in India being very ancient.
    Last edited by deuterium_1; 06-21-2019 at 11:34 AM.

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    Very interesting. Not being a history/archaeology buff, I would have thought the rural/village culture would be the last thing to compare against IVC, which was very urban with extremely organized planned settlements. Perhaps my bias is surfacing, but rural South Asia was/is very unorganized in terms of material culture with no plumbing or planned settlements. I will have to read the paper to understand it more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by poi View Post
    Very interesting. Not being a history/archaeology buff, I would have thought the rural/village culture would be the last thing to compare against IVC, which was very urban with extremely organized planned settlements. Perhaps my bias is surfacing, but rural South Asia was/is very unorganized in terms of material culture with no plumbing or planned settlements. I will have to read the paper to understand it more.
    You are correct, at its core it was a very urban culture, sure there were villages but they serviced those urban areas. These were sophisticated people in ways even more advanced than people living there upto the 19th century.

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    Did the IVC contribute ancestry to most Indians or just Pakistanis/peripheral areas? This is something I never got straight

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    Quote Originally Posted by Censored View Post
    Did the IVC contribute ancestry to most Indians or just Pakistanis/peripheral areas? This is something I never got straight
    Biggest IVC site discovered so far is Rakhigarhi, which is in Haryana(India). As far as genetics, if we go by SiS3 as the IVC proxy, then non-tribal South Indians have the highest SiS3. It really depends on IranN-AASI levels of the IVC inhabitants. Those IranN rich IVC pops from the western side of IVC could have been like West Pakistanis like Makrani/Brahui/Balochis (minus steppe), but IVC-proper would have been midichlorian! It would be interesting to see when the Rakhigarhi genes are revealed. Some members here know more about the upcoming results.

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    Quote Originally Posted by poi View Post
    Biggest IVC site discovered so far is Rakhigarhi, which is in Haryana(India). As far as genetics, if we go by SiS3 as the IVC proxy, then non-tribal South Indians have the highest SiS3. It really depends on IranN-AASI levels of the IVC inhabitants. Those IranN rich IVC pops from the western side of IVC could have been like West Pakistanis like Makrani/Brahui/Balochis (minus steppe), but IVC-proper would have been midichlorian! It would be interesting to see when the Rakhigarhi genes are revealed. Some members here know more about the upcoming results.
    Did IVC impact UP to Bangladesh?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Censored View Post
    Did IVC impact UP to Bangladesh?
    We have to wait for the Rakhigarhi results to see if IVC people were direct ancestors of modern South Asians, or a dead branch of similar people that started urban civilization and died out, while their rural cousins became the ancestors of South Asians. If you want my opinion, considering IVC was huge geographically, they would have groups of richIranN and richAASI and varying mix of intermediates... perhaps even pockets of Pontic steppe with R1aL657 lol(hopefully but wishful thinking at this point)
    Last edited by poi; 06-22-2019 at 01:57 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by poi View Post
    We have to wait for the Rakhigarhi results to see if IVC people were direct ancestors of modern South Asians, or a dead branch of similar people that started urban civilization and died out, while their rural cousins became the ancestors of South Asians. If you want my opinion, considering IVC was huge geographically, they would have groups of richIranN and richAASI and varying mix of intermediates... perhaps even pockets of Pontic steppe with R1aL657 lol(hopefully but wishful thinking at this point)
    Who lived east of the IVC? Hunter gatherers? I like to think my ancestors were hunter gatherers

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    Quote Originally Posted by Censored View Post
    Who lived east of the IVC? Hunter gatherers? I like to think my ancestors were hunter gatherers
    Before 1900s, nobody knew about IVC. When the British unearthed IVC, it was thought to have been restricted to modern day Pakistan. Now, the IVC sites seem to be further east into the western parts of the Gangetic plains. Basically, "the east of IVC" might mean further east. If we unearth more archaeological sites to the east (unlikely due to high population density in the Gangetic plains), it could only mean pretty much South Asian HGs.

    Regarding your particular ancestry, like all South Asians, you have HG ancestry one way or another. I don't think it is likely that anyone is directly descended from actual IVC urban dwellers. They probably died out, but their genetic (rural) cousins (that likely severely outnumbered the urban dwellers) survived and we get genes from them. I would be very much (pleasantly) surprised that any South Asian group has direct ancestry from actual IVC urban dwellers.

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    Isn't there some sort of cultural continuity between certain AA tribal groups and IVC? Specific methods of bronze casting, like the kind used in crafting the 'Dancing Girl'
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhokra

    Also from Adichanallur site(Tamil Nadu)
    https://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/jo...llai-0210.html

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