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Thread: Nusaybin Jews

  1. #1
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    Nusaybin Jews

    I recently found a Gedmatch kit of a guy who is 50% Assyrian/Syriac from Mardin(SE Turkey, near Syrian border) and 50% Jewish from Nusaybin(also located in Mardin). What do you guys know about the Jews of Nusaybin?

    Here are his Dodecad k12b results with the updated spreadsheet. I can post other calcs by request.

    Dodecad K12b

    Gedrosia 18.21 Pct
    Siberian 0.54 Pct
    Northwest_African 2.19 Pct
    Southeast_Asian -
    Atlantic_Med 10.8 Pct
    North_European 3.88 Pct
    South_Asian 0.06 Pct
    East_African -
    Southwest_Asian 18.64 Pct
    East_Asian -
    Caucasus 45.67 Pct
    Sub_Saharan -

     

    Distance to: Assyrian+Jew_Mardin
    2.43762179 Azeri_Jew
    2.55744013 Assyrian_South
    2.59788375 Assyrian_North
    2.67316292 Assyrian_West
    4.25613675 Iranian_Jew
    4.41712576 Kurdish_Jew
    5.15260128 Mandaean
    5.18893053 Iraqi_Jew
    5.23612452 Armenian_West
    7.25076548 Armenian_East
    7.88684981 Turk_East
    8.57447374 Nusayri_Turkey
    8.97987194 Udi_Azerbaijan
    9.24427931 Syrian_B
    9.29716086 Lebanese_Muslim
    9.39795722 Iraqi_Baghdad
    9.42382088 Turkmen_Iraq
    9.66654023 Zaza
    9.94074947 Syrian_A
    10.75072091 Kurd_Kurmanji
    11.15280234 Lebanese_Christian
    11.29821667 Kurd_Sorani
    11.36788459 Turk_Southeast
    11.70861221 Greek_Pontus
    11.81816822 Greek_Cappadocia

    Distance: 97.3150% / 0.97314968
    Target: Assyrian+Jew_Mardin | ADC: 0.25x RC
    48.7 Azeri_Jew
    45.9 Assyrian_West
    2.7 Lak
    1.5 Algerian
    1.2 Karelian


    Worth mentioning there are a lot of Azeri/Caucasus, Iranian and Iraqi Jews on Gedmatch and he doesn't match with them in the one-to-many option.
    Last edited by Helves; 11-19-2020 at 09:35 PM.

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  3. #2
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    Thanks for posting!

    Do you mind sharing their Eurogenes K13 results?

    Cool to see a pretty simple split between Azeri_Jew and Assyrian_West. This may imply that the Jews of this area were more similar to Persian and Mountain Jews as opposed to Iraqi and Georgian Jews. Hard to say whether or not that's just due to him being half Assyrian though.

    Any uniparentals associated with the kit?

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  5. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by leorcooper19 View Post
    Thanks for posting!

    Do you mind sharing their Eurogenes K13 results?

    Cool to see a pretty simple split between Azeri_Jew and Assyrian_West. This may imply that the Jews of this area were more similar to Persian and Mountain Jews as opposed to Iraqi and Georgian Jews. Hard to say whether or not that's just due to him being half Assyrian though
    Yes ofc. His K13 results are a bit atypical though. Very high East Med but low Red Sea at the same time, his relatively low-ish West Asian points rather to Iraqi/Kurdish Jews rather than Caucasus Jews with this one. I think it's clear though that he's not part Syrian Jewish, right?

    North_Atlantic 4.51 Pct
    Baltic -
    West_Med 7.77 Pct
    West_Asian 31.11 Pct
    East_Med 45.59 Pct
    Red_Sea 7.83 Pct
    South_Asian 2.78 Pct
    East_Asian -
    Siberian 0.34 Pct
    Amerindian 0.08 Pct
    Oceanian -
    Northeast_African -
    Sub-Saharan -

    Distance to: Assyrian+Jew_Mardin
    6.41672814 Iraqi_Jew
    6.69354166 Kurdish_Jewish
    7.59771018 Mandean
    7.88468135 Assyrian_West
    8.13263180 Assyrian_South
    8.32639178 Assyrian_North
    9.13957329 Mountain_Jew_Chechnya
    11.02642281 Lebanese_Druze
    11.52959236 Nusayri
    11.92527149 Georgian_Jewish
    11.94008375 Armenian_West
    12.38685997 Lebanese_Muslim
    13.45259083 Armenian
    14.06311488 Iraqi_Baghdad
    14.24133421 Lebanese_Christian
    14.44554603 Greek_Trabzon
    14.73161566 Greek_Caucasus
    15.14840256 Armenian_East
    15.18589477 Syrian
    15.27343445 Greek_Cappadocian
    15.61517531 Turkmen_Iraq
    17.00410539 Turk_South_East
    17.02963006 Samaritan
    17.25257082 Greek_Cypriot
    17.49628532 Jordanian

    Any uniparentals associated with the kit?
    Not atm. His close relative from his Assyrian side is active on Reddit I can maybe ask him.

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  7. #4
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    How did this marriage happen?
    הִנְנִי֩ מֵבִ֨יא אוֹתָ֜ם מֵאֶ֣רֶץ צָפ֗וֹן

    Jeremiah 31

    Other potential and/or likely recent lineages: J-L816, J-PF5456, E-FGC56023

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    Quote Originally Posted by Helves View Post
    I recently found a Gedmatch kit of a guy who is 50% Assyrian/Syriac from Mardin(SE Turkey, near Syrian border) and 50% Jewish from Nusaybin(also located in Mardin). What do you guys know about the Jews of Nusaybin?

    Here are his Dodecad k12b results with the updated spreadsheet. I can post other calcs by request.

    Dodecad K12b

    Gedrosia 18.21 Pct
    Siberian 0.54 Pct
    Northwest_African 2.19 Pct
    Southeast_Asian -
    Atlantic_Med 10.8 Pct
    North_European 3.88 Pct
    South_Asian 0.06 Pct
    East_African -
    Southwest_Asian 18.64 Pct
    East_Asian -
    Caucasus 45.67 Pct
    Sub_Saharan -

     

    Distance to: Assyrian+Jew_Mardin
    2.43762179 Azeri_Jew
    2.55744013 Assyrian_South
    2.59788375 Assyrian_North
    2.67316292 Assyrian_West
    4.25613675 Iranian_Jew
    4.41712576 Kurdish_Jew
    5.15260128 Mandaean
    5.18893053 Iraqi_Jew
    5.23612452 Armenian_West
    7.25076548 Armenian_East
    7.88684981 Turk_East
    8.57447374 Nusayri_Turkey
    8.97987194 Udi_Azerbaijan
    9.24427931 Syrian_B
    9.29716086 Lebanese_Muslim
    9.39795722 Iraqi_Baghdad
    9.42382088 Turkmen_Iraq
    9.66654023 Zaza
    9.94074947 Syrian_A
    10.75072091 Kurd_Kurmanji
    11.15280234 Lebanese_Christian
    11.29821667 Kurd_Sorani
    11.36788459 Turk_Southeast
    11.70861221 Greek_Pontus
    11.81816822 Greek_Cappadocia

    Distance: 97.3150% / 0.97314968
    Target: Assyrian+Jew_Mardin | ADC: 0.25x RC
    48.7 Azeri_Jew
    45.9 Assyrian_West
    2.7 Lak
    1.5 Algerian
    1.2 Karelian


    Worth mentioning there are a lot of Azeri/Caucasus, Iranian and Iraqi Jews on Gedmatch and he doesn't match with them in the one-to-many option.
    None of these results seem unexpected. Many Jews en route to Israel lived there temporarily, some might have stayed behind, including from the Caucasus. Several hundred Jews lived there locally before Israel was established but they moved to Israel.
    23andMe 5.9:
    100% Ashkenazi Jewish

    Eurogenes K13:
    East_Med 39.85
    West_Med 20.41
    North_Atlantic 12.84
    West_Asian 9.90
    Baltic 7.64
    Red_Sea 5.56
    East_Asian 1.25
    Northeast_African 1.04

    Father 23andMe 5.9:
    100% Ashkenazi Jewish

    Mother 23andMe 5.9:
    98.4% Ashkenazi Jewish
    0.5% Iranian, Caucasian, Mesopotamian
    0.5% Levantine
    0.2% Coptic Egyptian
    0.2% Sudanese
    0.2% Ethiopian & Eritrean

  9. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by StillWater View Post
    How did this marriage happen?
    I don't know tbh. Marriage with Jews was and still is very uncommon if not non-existent from what I've heard from my grandparents(they lived near Arbil in Iraq and it's large Jewish population back then). I think his Jewish parent converted and assimilated since he now lives in Sweden like many other Assyrians from Mardin.
    Quote Originally Posted by jkotl0327 View Post
    None of these results seem unexpected. Many Jews en route to Israel lived there temporarily, some might have stayed behind, including from the Caucasus. Several hundred Jews lived there locally before Israel was established but they moved to Israel.
    The thing is though that he doesn't match with the numerous Mountain, Iranian or Iraqi Jews who are on Gedmatch. Most of these groups match closely with eachother with the one-to-many option.

    Was there a native Jewish population in Nusaybin? Did they speak Arabic?

  10. #7
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    Does he get close Jewish cousin matches? Where are they from?
    הִנְנִי֩ מֵבִ֨יא אוֹתָ֜ם מֵאֶ֣רֶץ צָפ֗וֹן

    Jeremiah 31

    Other potential and/or likely recent lineages: J-L816, J-PF5456, E-FGC56023

  11. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by StillWater View Post
    Does he get close Jewish cousin matches? Where are they from?
    No he has only a couple Assyrian matches.

  12. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helves View Post
    I don't know tbh. Marriage with Jews was and still is very uncommon if not non-existent from what I've heard from my grandparents(they lived near Arbil in Iraq and it's large Jewish population back then). I think his Jewish parent converted and assimilated since he now lives in Sweden like many other Assyrians from Mardin.

    The thing is though that he doesn't match with the numerous Mountain, Iranian or Iraqi Jews who are on Gedmatch. Most of these groups match closely with eachother with the one-to-many option.

    Was there a native Jewish population in Nusaybin? Did they speak Arabic?
    There was, it was a pretty important Jewish center in Talmudic times, but by Israel's founding the population was very small. Not sure but I think they spoke Judeo-Arabic, but maybe it was Aramaic, I'm not sure.
    23andMe 5.9:
    100% Ashkenazi Jewish

    Eurogenes K13:
    East_Med 39.85
    West_Med 20.41
    North_Atlantic 12.84
    West_Asian 9.90
    Baltic 7.64
    Red_Sea 5.56
    East_Asian 1.25
    Northeast_African 1.04

    Father 23andMe 5.9:
    100% Ashkenazi Jewish

    Mother 23andMe 5.9:
    98.4% Ashkenazi Jewish
    0.5% Iranian, Caucasian, Mesopotamian
    0.5% Levantine
    0.2% Coptic Egyptian
    0.2% Sudanese
    0.2% Ethiopian & Eritrean

  13. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by jkotl0327 View Post
    There was, it was a pretty important Jewish center in Talmudic times, but by Israel's founding the population was very small. Not sure but I think they spoke Judeo-Arabic, but maybe it was Aramaic, I'm not sure.
    I think they must be close to Kurdish Jews too. Not many Kurdish Jews on Gedmatch which explains why he has no close matches.

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