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Thread: Gaelic/Gaulish and Gilaki/Galeshi people & Haplogroup R1b

  1. #1

    Gaelic/Gaulish and Gilaki/Galeshi people & Haplogroup R1b

    I think the earliest mention of a people with the name of Gaeli was by Pliny which dates back to about 2,000 years ago, of course they didn't live in Europe but in the south of Caspian sea where modern Gilaki and Galeshi people already live.

    The original land of these people was in Werkana (Hyrcania), from the name of a mountain forest in the northeast of Iran: https://whc.unesco.org/en/tentativelists/5214/, this land is already called Golestan (land of Gauls), in ancient Akkadian sources we see Urqananu/Arqania as a mountain forest in the south of Caucasus, and in ancient Greek sources, Hyrcanis is a land in the west of modern Turkey: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyrcanis_(Lydia) Strabo says that they were immigrants from Hyrcania, Pliny also talks about Hercynium mountain forest in Dacia (modern Romania) and Hyrcani in Macedonia. And finally we see Hercynian Forest in the central Europe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hercynian_Forest It is believed this name is from proto-IE *perkʷunyo "forested mountain" with *p>w>h sound changes in proto-Celtic.

    Now about cultural similarities between Gaelic/Gaulish and Gilaki/Galeshi people, first let's look at Midsummer festival of Beltane from proto-Celtic *balo-tanos "bright fire": http://www.wiccaweb.org.uk/beltane.html

    At Beltane (Gaelic for bright - light) fires would be lit. Cattle were herded through the smoke to purify them, ridding them of parasites.

    To our Pagan ancestors, May Day was the first day of Summer. Traditionally, young couples would marry and ask that their union be made fertile. They would often light small Beltane fires which they would jump over to bless their union. Men and women would dance around a male phallic symbol (may pole) attached to it by cords or ribbons raising power in it, to make the male sexual organ capable of fertilising the female, and as it was embedded in the earth, to raise power to fertilise the land.
    At Beltane, the Goddess is personified as the Goddess Rhiannon, the Celtic equivalent is the Goddess Epona. Both the Goddess Rhiannon and the Goddess Epona are horse goddesses.
    At Beltaine, as the Maiden, she is riding the white horse, with birds flying about her, music accompanying her, and the horse is now her consort, the God, representing the power and fertility beneath her girth. A symbol of the Goddess Rhiannon can be seen at White Horse Hill, Uffington, a stretch of downland near Wantage, Oxfordshire. It is said that couples wanting a child should go there and at Beltaine and let nature take it's course!
    Now about Gilaki festival of Bal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midsummer#Iran

    Another midsummer festival is Gilaki Bal Nowrooz which is held in the north of Iran.

    Bal Nowrooz, meaning ‘the fire of Nowrooz’, is the name of a festival celebrated on the first day of ‘Our Nowrooz’ and this is the first day of Daylaman New Year.

    Lighting the fire, thanking God for his blessings and crops, and praying for the peace of the souls of the dead were parts of this ancient Iranian tradition. This ceremony coincides with harvesting in Gilan.

    On the first day of ‘Our Nowrooz’, the newly wed couples who have married in the past year, are given white horses to ride up to the foot of the mountain. As the brides and grooms reach the mountain foot, a yellow cow is set free, as a sign of happiness and abundance for the new couples.
    Of course they don't dance around a male phallic symbol (may pole) but these ancient symbols still exist in Golestan province: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalid_Nabi_Cemetery

    In popular media the stones are often described as examples of phallic architecture and a major tourist attraction.

    Touristic visitors often have perceived the cylindrical shafts with the thicker top as depictions of male phalli. This gave rise to popular guesses about pre-Islamic fertility cults as background to such perceived depictions.

    Statue of Gilaki horse goddess in Fuman city:



    Haplogroup R1b:

    Last edited by Cyrus; 06-16-2019 at 06:35 AM.

  2. #2
    Another important thing which shows a strong cultural similarity between Gaelic/Gaulish and Gilaki/Galeshi people is mouthless statue mehirs, I think the majority of them have been found in the southwest of the Caspian sea, especially in Shahreyeri.

    Northwest of Iran and Azerbaijan:





    South of France:




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    Quote Originally Posted by anglesqueville View Post
    Nationalism is an inexhaustible source of entertainment. That will be my only comment to these posts.
    I believe nationalism makes people blind, so that they never want to believe the most obvious historical facts.

    There are two types of people, those ones who don't research and those one who don't want to research, the second group are mostly nationalists.
    Last edited by Cyrus; 06-18-2019 at 07:46 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrus View Post
    I think the earliest mention of a people with the name of Gaeli was by Pliny which dates back to about 2,000 years ago, of course they didn't live in Europe but in the south of Caspian sea where modern Gilaki and Galeshi people already live.

    The original land of these people was in Werkana (Hyrcania), from the name of a mountain forest in the northeast of Iran: https://whc.unesco.org/en/tentativelists/5214/, this land is already called Golestan (land of Gauls), in ancient Akkadian sources we see Urqananu/Arqania as a mountain forest in the south of Caucasus, and in ancient Greek sources, Hyrcanis is a land in the west of modern Turkey: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyrcanis_(Lydia) Strabo says that they were immigrants from Hyrcania, Pliny also talks about Hercynium mountain forest in Dacia (modern Romania) and Hyrcani in Macedonia. And finally we see Hercynian Forest in the central Europe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hercynian_Forest It is believed this name is from proto-IE *perkʷunyo "forested mountain" with *p>w>h sound changes in proto-Celtic.
    Hyrcania is the Latin borrowing from a Greek word "Ὑρκανία" which is itself a borrowing from Old Persian "Varkâna", which effectively means "Wolf-land". This is a completely unrelated etymology to Hercynian.


    Now about cultural similarities between Gaelic/Gaulish and Gilaki/Galeshi people, first let's look at Midsummer festival of Beltane from proto-Celtic *balo-tanos "bright fire": http://www.wiccaweb.org.uk/beltane.html



    Now about Gilaki festival of Bal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midsummer#Iran



    Of course they don't dance around a male phallic symbol (may pole) but these ancient symbols still exist in Golestan province: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalid_Nabi_Cemetery



    Statue of Gilaki horse goddess in Fuman city:



    Haplogroup R1b:
    Again, there are several similar celebrations shared across many cultures, this doesn't really say anything. Are you insinuating that ALL R1b is Celtic? Or are you just ignoring phylogeny?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrus View Post
    I believe nationalism makes people blind, so that they never want to believe the most obvious historical facts.

    There are two types of people, those ones who don't research and those one who don't want to research, the second group are mostly nationalists.
    Research should not be confused with inventing facts, nor should research include omission of data.

    EDIT:

    I should add that Golestan most certainly does not mean "land of Gauls", it derives, yet again, from Varkâna, meaning "land of wolves" or "wolf-land". If I recall correctly, wild wolves still have a presence in Golestan.
    Last edited by spruithean; 06-18-2019 at 12:21 PM. Reason: added comment on Golestan

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  8. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by spruithean View Post
    Hyrcania is the Latin borrowing from a Greek word "Ὑρκανία" which is itself a borrowing from Old Persian "Varkâna", which effectively means "Wolf-land". This is a completely unrelated etymology to Hercynian.
    That is clearly a folk etymology, ancient Akkadian sources talk about Urqananu/Arqania several years before arrival of Persians to this region. For example for a long time it was also believed that the name of Baghdad, capital of Iraq and a former capital of Persian empires, is from Old Persian baga-data "given by god" but then ancient Akkadian texts were found and we already know the same location was called Bagdadu with the meaning of "land of irrigation canals", hundreds years before Persians.

    Quote Originally Posted by spruithean
    Again, there are several similar celebrations shared across many cultures, this doesn't really say anything.
    Please mention them, especially with these details, I'm interested to know.

    Quote Originally Posted by spruithean
    Are you insinuating that ALL R1b is Celtic? Or are you just ignoring phylogeny?
    No, but you yourself shared a video about cultural relation between people with haplogroup R1b, it even mentioned Bashkirs. Of course I know why it didn't mention Gilaki/Galeshi people, however we know European R1b relates to them, not Bashkirs. It just shows the power of nationalism.
    Last edited by Cyrus; 06-19-2019 at 08:02 AM.

  9. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrus View Post
    That is clearly a folk etymology, ancient Akkadian sources talk about Urqananu/Arqania several years before arrival of Persians to this region. For example for a long time it was also believed that the name of Baghdad, capital of Iraq and a former capital of Persian empires, is from Old Persian baga-data "given by god" but then ancient Akkadian texts were found and we already know the same location was called Bagdadu with the meaning of "land of irrigation canals", hundreds years before Persians.
    I'm going to side with what the vast majority of what credible scholars support, so we'll agree to disagree.


    No, but you yourself shared a video about cultural relation between people with haplogroup R1b, it even mentioned Bashkirs. Of course I know why it didn't mention Gilaki/Galeshi people, however we know European R1b relates to them, not Bashkirs. It just shows the power of nationalism.
    Firstly, I did no such thing. Secondly, I really think you don't know the meaning of nationalism, you've thrown this term around a fair bit, especially when people have refuted you.

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