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Thread: What Do We Know About U5a2, etc.?

  1. #1
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    Question What Do We Know About U5a2, etc.?

    I have focused on my y-dna line so much that I am woefully ignorant when it comes to mtDNA. I know the basics and a bit about mtDNA haplogroup distribution in the very broadest sense, but little beyond that.

    According to BritainsDNA's Chromo2 Complete test, I am U5a2c3a.

    Here are my results (with my own little notes to keep me on the right track).

    HVR1 (runs from nucleotide 16001 to nucleotide 16569)

    16223T
    16256T
    16270T
    16294T
    16526A

    HVR2 (runs from nucleotide 00001 to nucleotide 00574)

    73G
    263G

    Coding Region (runs from nucleotide 00575 to nucleotide 16000)

    750G
    1438G
    2706G
    3197C
    4769G
    7028T
    7960c
    9477A
    10709C
    11465C
    11467G
    11719A
    12308G
    12372A
    13617C
    13880A
    14793G

    So, what do we know about U5a? U5a2? U5a2c, and so on?

    Any help is appreciated.

  2. #2
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    My summary of U5a2 is on the U5 project results page (link).

    There are more details at the link above, but here is the short summary:


    U5a2 is found much less frequently than U5a1, but U5a2 also lived during a time of more rapid population expansion because it has 7 known daughter lineages, including five named subclades and two lineages not yet named. As in the case of U5a1, the majority of U5a2 samples (69%) are in its two largest subclades, U5a2a and U5a2b, and 37% of all U5a2 samples are in U5a2a1 which is dated to about 6000 ybp, suggesting that U5a2a1 lived in a Neolithic population that expanded very rapidly. U5a2 is found most frequently in northern and eastern Europe, including Russia. It is possible that U5a2 was present in multiple ice age refugia. Some of the less common subclades of U5a2 are found primarily in western Europe and may have been present in an ice age refuge in western Europe, while U5a2a and U5a2b are found more frequently in the northern regions of central and eastern Europe, and perhaps were present in an ice age refuge in the Balkans or Italy. From ancient remains we know that U5a2a was already present in Germany 8700 ybp. Another possibility is that U5a2a was present in a southern European ice age refuge, and initially expanded into central and northern Europe as the ice retreated, and then expanded into eastern Europe and Russia. The fact that U5a2 is found infrequently in southern Europe suggests that it was not present in early Neolithic farming communities that expanded from the Near East into Europe. If U5a2a1 was not present among early farmers, perhaps its high frequency in northern Europe today and its rapid expansion 6000 years ago might suggest that U5a2a1 was present in early Neolithic herding communities in eastern and northern Europe? More testing of ancient remains will be needed to better understand the migration history of U5a2.
    This is somewhat speculative so I'd be interested in hearing other opinions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GailT View Post
    My summary of U5a2 is on the U5 project results page (link).

    There are more details at the link above, but here is the short summary:




    This is somewhat speculative so I'd be interested in hearing other opinions.
    TIM033 16256T 16270T 73G 263G 4769G 7028T 12308G U5a1
    SAU034 16192 16230 16256 16270 73 263 4769G 7028T 12308G 14766T U5a
    SAU004 16192 16256 16270 16291 73 152 263 4769G 7028T 12308G 14766T U5a1b1
    SAU029 16192 16256 16270 16291 73 152 263 4769G 7028T 12308G 14766T U5a1b1
    SAU026 16256 16270 16278 73 146 263 297 4769G 7028T 12308G 14766T U5a2
    SAU017 16114A 16192 16256 16270 16294 73 252 263 4769G 7028T 12308G 14766T U5a2a1b1
    SAU020 16114A 16192 16256 16270 16294 73 252 263 4769G 7028T 12308G 14766T U5a2a1b1
    SAU021 16114A 16192 16256 16270 16294 73 252 263 4769G 7028T 12308G 14766T U5a2a1b1
    SAU030 16114A 16192 16256 16270 16294 73 252 263 4769G 7028T 12308G 14766T U5a2a1b1
    SAU032 16114A 16192 16256 16270 16294 73 252 263 4769G 7028T 12308G 14766T U5a2a1b1
    SAU043 16114A 16192 16256 16270 16294 73 252 263 4769G 7028T 12308G 14766T U5a2a1b1
    SAU049 16114 16192 16256 16270 16294 73 252 263 4769G 7028T 12308G 14766T U5a2a1b1
    SAU050 16114 16192 16256 16270 16294 73 252 263 4769G 7028T 12308G 14766T U5a2a1b1
    SAU051 16114 16192 16256 16270 16294 73 252 263 4769G 7028T 12308G 14766T U5a2a1b1
    SAP011 16192 16230 16256 16270 73 263 4769G 7028T 12308G 14766T U5a
    LES002 16183G 16192T 16256T 16271T 73G 200G 263G 4769G 7028T 12308G U5a2
    LES040 16192T 16270T 73G 150T 263G 4769G 7028T 12308G U5b

    towns> Lessinia Sappada Sauris Timau

    These are from the 2013 study/papers of alpine veneto and trentino regions


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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    I have focused on my y-dna line so much that I am woefully ignorant when it comes to mtDNA. I know the basics and a bit about mtDNA haplogroup distribution in the very broadest sense, but little beyond that.

    According to BritainsDNA's Chromo2 Complete test, I am U5a2c3a.

    Here are my results (with my own little notes to keep me on the right track).


    HVR1 (runs from nucleotide 16001 to nucleotide 16569)

    16223T
    16256T
    16270T
    16294T
    16526A

    HVR2 (runs from nucleotide 00001 to nucleotide 00574)

    73G
    263G

    Coding Region (runs from nucleotide 00575 to nucleotide 16000)

    750G
    1438G
    2706G
    3197C
    4769G
    7028T
    7960c
    9477A
    10709C
    11465C
    11467G
    11719A
    12308G
    12372A
    13617C
    13880A
    14793G

    So, what do we know about U5a? U5a2? U5a2c, and so on?

    Any help is appreciated.


    I am like you when it comes to MtDNA! So different then Y-DNA, I need a crash course MtDNA for dummies!
    R1b1a2a1a1b3 U152+ Z56+ Z144/Z145/Z146+ P312+ U106- M228.2- M160- M126- L4- L21- L2- L196- L176.2- DYS492=14 Roma, Italia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vettor View Post
    SAU034 16192 16230 16256 16270 73 263 4769G 7028T 12308G 14766T U5a

    SAP011 16192 16230 16256 16270 73 263 4769G 7028T 12308G 14766T U5a

    These are from the 2013 study/papers of alpine veneto and trentino regions
    The U5a samples are intriguing, I wonder if they could be encouraged to do the full sequence on these samples.

    Currently the only U5a* samples are DQ156212 from Spain and EF660950 from Italy, although EF660950 could be U5a2c with a back mutation at 16526. It would be very helpful to have more U5a* samples.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GailT View Post
    The U5a samples are intriguing, I wonder if they could be encouraged to do the full sequence on these samples.

    Currently the only U5a* samples are DQ156212 from Spain and EF660950 from Italy, although EF660950 could be U5a2c with a back mutation at 16526. It would be very helpful to have more U5a* samples.
    maybe the answer is in one of these 2 related papers

    http://www.plosone.org/article/info:...l.pone.0056371

    http://www.plosone.org/article/info%...l.pone.0081704


    My Path = ( K-M9+, TL-P326+, T-M184+, L490+, M70+, PF5664+, L131+, L446+, CTS933+, CTS3767+, CTS8862+, Z19945+, BY143483 )


    Grandfather via paternal grandmother = I1-Y33791 ydna
    Great grandmother paternal side = T1a1e mtdna

  10. #7
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    The Capocasa et al. paper did not sequence the full genome. I checked the results again, and they also did not sequence the full HVR1 region, and they missed 16526. So it is very likely that their U5a samples are U5a2.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GailT View Post
    The Capocasa et al. paper did not sequence the full genome. I checked the results again, and they also did not sequence the full HVR1 region, and they missed 16526. So it is very likely that their U5a samples are U5a2.
    i was told these people did the test or are a part of the alpine tests, maybe you can contact them as from what i read they have more info

    http://laboratoriobagolini.it/?page_id=2517&lang=en


    My Path = ( K-M9+, TL-P326+, T-M184+, L490+, M70+, PF5664+, L131+, L446+, CTS933+, CTS3767+, CTS8862+, Z19945+, BY143483 )


    Grandfather via paternal grandmother = I1-Y33791 ydna
    Great grandmother paternal side = T1a1e mtdna

  13. #9
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    I'm responding to the "In the news" thread conversation on U5a2a here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Krefter View Post
    That U5a2a is probably of Steppe origin. Although North Asian hunter gatherers also had U5a2a before the Bronze age
    U5a2a is estimated to be about 12,000 years old and U5a2a1 about 6000 years old. There are 139 FMS samples for U5a2a and 125 or 90% of them are in its largest subclade U5a2a1. The remaining 14 samples are split among 3 unnamed subclades that are found in northern Europe, mostly Denmark. There is also an ancient U5a2a sample (partial CR results) from Germany (Hohlenstein-Stadel) dated to about 8700 years ago, and it might represent an extinct branch of U5a2a. So we know that U5a2a was in Europe during the Mesolithic. My guess is that U5a2a originated in southern Europe shortly after the end of the LGM, expanded into northern Europe in the Mesolithic, and that U5a2a1 originated in eastern Europe, part of the eastward expansion of Mesolithic U5 hunter-gatherers. U5a2a1 is found today at greatest frequency in northern Europe and Russia so I don't think it was primarily from the Steppe expansion, rather, there might be continuity of U5a2a1 in northeastern Europe, and the age of U5a2a1 might be consistent with an origin in the Funnelbeaker culture.

    The ancient sample from China is interesting - it has only 1 of the 2 defining U5a2a1 mutations, but it is also missing several other expected mutations, so the results might be incomplete. There is also a modern U5a2a1 sample from the Koryak in far eastern Russia.

    Quote Originally Posted by J Man View Post
    Which North Asian hunter-gatherer groups had U5a2a among them?
    Bramanti et al. identified the Hohlenstein-Stadel sample as Beuronien.

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  15. #10
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    I take it then that the U5b2 sample from the Hohlenstein-Stadel site from the Bramanti paper is also Beuronien.

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